Ableton Forum

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm**

ekwipt wrote:RENs OS might be 1.0 but they've had 20+ years to get this shit right on release

Wasn't Akai too busy selling MPCs, portable recorders, rack mount samplers, etc?

How long did it take for native instruments to realise their users need a stop button on their controller?

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:04 pm**

yur2die4 wrote:If only they could cut a deal with fxpansion haha

This is what I'm waiting on, a dedicated controller for Geist. Ren, Maschine, Drum Racks have nothing on Geist as a software drum sampler. Well, except for the controllers.

If you really wanted to step your game up you'd swoop a Octatrack before the price goes up again. Now that's a true hardware drum sampler.

Wait, are the MPCs discontinued? Even the 1000?

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:03 pm**

humnumb wrote: - the Ren still requires you to use the mouse for a lot of things. You can't even nudge notes from the Ren controller (source: Jahrome) and you can't open/close instrument plugin windows from the Ren controller (source: Pete blues, Akai)
- you have to stop the Ren's sequencer to do basic things like loading samples/files (source: Jahrome)

These things really suck. I don't like to have to even look at the screen/software/etc.

humnumb wrote: - no 64bit support (source: Jahrome)

- no RTAS support (for anyone using Pro Tools) (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- it doesn't receive MIDI clock or MTC in standalone mode(source: Jahrome)

- Ren doesn't have independent swing (Maschine has it per sound/group/master) and it doesn't work in realtime (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- you can't manually add/remove slices (source: IMAKEMADBEATS)

- Ren's software will not run without the Ren controller being attached (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

So if you're editing something that involves the MPC on a plane... you have to get the giant MPC out? What? This I did not know at the time, but it seems like a big limitation ONLY because of how big the controller is.

humnumb wrote:
- the Renaissance controller is not usb bus-powered and requires an ac adapter (source: Bremen)

- the Ren doesn't have a fast pad duplicate feature like Maschine and even if you copy samples to different pads in the Ren, editing a pad will affect all pads instead of each pad having its own setting like Maschine (source: LMSW, Blue Haze)

- copying sequences eats up memory when you're using plugins on the Ren's software. Only the sample kits qualify as programs that can be shared across sequences. That means a few instances of a heavy plugin will peak your CPU. (source: Jahrome)

- Ren doesn't even output MIDI as a plugin (source: bobbybland)

This means that the workflow/APC integration/etc I linked to in my post above is not particularly useful for the MPC.

humnumb wrote:
- Ren can't even export a program out to separate sounds. You can't get anything other then a single wave file for an entire sequence and .pgm. Ren forces you to manually copy and paste separate tracks for each drum hit that you want separate, which is extremely tedious and a complete workflow killer. (source: bobbybland)

- using Ren's timestretch and pitchshift overwrites the original sample without giving you an option. Maschine's way doesn't interrupt the workflow because it doesn't prompt you to save as new or overwrite the original in the process, and it's easy to undo. (source: MIDIchlorian)

- editing multiple pads on Maschine is much quicker. When editing multiple samples on different pads on Maschine, as soon as you hit the pad it pulls up the sample on screen ready to be edited. On the Ren, if you want to switch to another sample to edit.. you have to scroll to it, which is a workflow killer. (source: KnockSquared)

- it's hard to do anything but the most basic functions with the Ren controller's built in screen alone. You can do just about anything on Maschine's hardware with my laptop closed. (source: Bremen)

Just like the features that require a mouse, this slows one down a lot.

humnumb wrote:
- And even with all that clicking around on the computer screen required on the Ren, it can't even highlight and drag more than one sample at a time. (source: SquareBanger)

- the Ren's sequencer stops every time you simply drag a sample from the browser to a pad (source: Jahrome)

- you can't drag and drop to bounce/export. (source: bobbybland)

- it doesn't even support all of Akai's own legacy MPC file formats (doesn't read .ALL or .APS and ignores things like "Effects, Q Link slider events, Mute groups/mute targets, velocity sensitive parameters (V > Att etc), LFO, sequence track assignments, song files, any JJOSXL specific feature (e.g. NDC related data etc") (source: MPC-Tutor)

- there's a growing list of bugs that the beta testers missed. Simplest things makes it crash (Copying sequences, Clearing programs, Duplicating Inst Program...etc.)
and other bugs like notes getting stuck, screen problems...etc.

and it obviously doesn't have Komplete 8 integration that Maschine has where all presets from Komplete 8 can be browsed and loaded just from the hardware."

If you've made the investment in Ultimate, then you'll miss this a lot.

Thanks for posting all these!

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:24 pm**

ekwipt wrote:RENs OS might be 1.0 but they've had 20+ years to get this shit right on release

passionate but unlikely, unless you're name is propeller head you're not releasing any software without bugs, not even Reason is without bugs on release…. and incase anyone didn't know, coding apps has changed allot in the last 20 years as well.
pots shouldn't talk to kettles that way

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:31 pm**

botstein wrote:
humnumb wrote: - the Ren still requires you to use the mouse for a lot of things. You can't even nudge notes from the Ren controller (source: Jahrome) and you can't open/close instrument plugin windows from the Ren controller (source: Pete blues, Akai)
- you have to stop the Ren's sequencer to do basic things like loading samples/files (source: Jahrome)
These things really suck. I don't like to have to even look at the screen/software/etc.

humnumb wrote: - no 64bit support (source: Jahrome)

- no RTAS support (for anyone using Pro Tools) (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- it doesn't receive MIDI clock or MTC in standalone mode(source: Jahrome)

- Ren doesn't have independent swing (Maschine has it per sound/group/master) and it doesn't work in realtime (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

- you can't manually add/remove slices (source: IMAKEMADBEATS)

- Ren's software will not run without the Ren controller being attached (source: Dan Gill, Akai)

So if you're editing something that involves the MPC on a plane... you have to get the giant MPC out? What? This I did not know at the time, but it seems like a big limitation ONLY because of how big the controller is.

humnumb wrote:
- the Renaissance controller is not usb bus-powered and requires an ac adapter (source: Bremen)

- the Ren doesn't have a fast pad duplicate feature like Maschine and even if you copy samples to different pads in the Ren, editing a pad will affect all pads instead of each pad having its own setting like Maschine (source: LMSW, Blue Haze)

- copying sequences eats up memory when you're using plugins on the Ren's software. Only the sample kits qualify as programs that can be shared across sequences. That means a few instances of a heavy plugin will peak your CPU. (source: Jahrome)

- Ren doesn't even output MIDI as a plugin (source: bobbybland)

This means that the workflow/APC integration/etc I linked to in my post above is not particularly useful for the MPC.

humnumb wrote:
- Ren can't even export a program out to separate sounds. You can't get anything other then a single wave file for an entire sequence and .pgm. Ren forces you to manually copy and paste separate tracks for each drum hit that you want separate, which is extremely tedious and a complete workflow killer. (source: bobbybland)

- using Ren's timestretch and pitchshift overwrites the original sample without giving you an option. Maschine's way doesn't interrupt the workflow because it doesn't prompt you to save as new or overwrite the original in the process, and it's easy to undo. (source: MIDIchlorian)

- editing multiple pads on Maschine is much quicker. When editing multiple samples on different pads on Maschine, as soon as you hit the pad it pulls up the sample on screen ready to be edited. On the Ren, if you want to switch to another sample to edit.. you have to scroll to it, which is a workflow killer. (source: KnockSquared)

- it's hard to do anything but the most basic functions with the Ren controller's built in screen alone. You can do just about anything on Maschine's hardware with my laptop closed. (source: Bremen)

Just like the features that require a mouse, this slows one down a lot.

humnumb wrote:
- And even with all that clicking around on the computer screen required on the Ren, it can't even highlight and drag more than one sample at a time. (source: SquareBanger)

- the Ren's sequencer stops every time you simply drag a sample from the browser to a pad (source: Jahrome)

- you can't drag and drop to bounce/export. (source: bobbybland)

- it doesn't even support all of Akai's own legacy MPC file formats (doesn't read .ALL or .APS and ignores things like "Effects, Q Link slider events, Mute groups/mute targets, velocity sensitive parameters (V > Att etc), LFO, sequence track assignments, song files, any JJOSXL specific feature (e.g. NDC related data etc") (source: MPC-Tutor)

- there's a growing list of bugs that the beta testers missed. Simplest things makes it crash (Copying sequences, Clearing programs, Duplicating Inst Program...etc.)
and other bugs like notes getting stuck, screen problems...etc.

and it obviously doesn't have Komplete 8 integration that Maschine has where all presets from Komplete 8 can be browsed and loaded just from the hardware."
If you've made the investment in Ultimate, then you'll miss this a lot.

Thanks for posting all these!

all this stuff will change it's only 1.0 and the ren is the largest flagship controller, it's the mpc studio that is what you should be comparing to the maschine, and the mpc studio won't be out until mid or the end of october, and it's formfactor is smaller than that of maschines so you'll be okay on your Aero-Plane while making your cloud rocking beats lol

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:37 pm**

there is so much misinformation and disinformation going on regarding the mpcs it's not even funny, I love maschine that's why I own 2 and have been trying to pick up a mk2 version for a couple of days now, but it's hilarious how on the native instruments forum the people who know nothing about mpcs are acting like they know the most about them it's funny as hell, they like to say things like mpcs are obsolete but maschine can't even import midi or record mutes, you have to put your big trousers on and walk over to your dddaaawww for that

what a fucking joke. but I'm a samplist samplist so I gets down with it anyway, I use my maschines purely for sound design at this point.

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:43 pm**

@starv stu

If I have to admit that Apple fucked up the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 then you can admit that Akai, your Apple, fucked this one up big time too.

We can cry together for different reasons.

Posted: **Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:52 pm**

No, from what is said in this thread, MPC ren is shit compared to maschine.
Which is good because I have already maschine, and I was interested in MPC ren.
But now I don't give a F about MPC ren since it's shit.
And I will not double check sources and informations because anyway I don't want to spend my money in another MPC style controller.

cheers

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:07 am**

On the topic of updates. That could really be the deciding factor as to whether the MPC brand retains a kind of legacy, or just dumps products on users and moves onto the next thing.

It is a double-edged sword however. If you keep offering upgrades, people will annoyingly beg for more. If you don't, you'd better be committed to releasing something with tight, clear functionality.

No matter what, consumers acquire a product and then foam at the mouth for the adrenaline of newness. Even if there isn't a new thing on the table. And if they aren't being productive, they'll blame the company for not upgrading haha

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:15 am**

beats me wrote:@starv stu

If I have to admit that Apple fucked up the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 then you can admit that Akai, your Apple, fucked this one up big time too.

We can cry together for different reasons.

you know me I'm all about equality, there are allot of short term memories dancing about, not remembering Native instruments actually making it's 1.0 release so bad that they had to take out some features all together that they had put in at first, now keep in mind that the 1.0 release of maschine was the most featureless os release of any drumsampler in history, even ipad drumsamplers have more on their 1.0 releases so its not like maschines 1.0 release was so bursting at the seams that they just made a few mistakes and couldn't get it together, it was already a skeleton to begin with but still they fudged up some features so bad that they had to remove them, not fix them but take them out completely not to be seen again until 3 years later, and that's not even all of them yet that they had taken out back then….. they boxed and released the units this way so anybody with amnesia can say what they want, and if you say you don't want to do research and learn about the instruments you're purchasing that's fine too I mean you gotta be you right, but don't act like maschine has some kind of high horse to look down from……. talk about etcha sketch moments haha

@ yur2die4 … I agree, and this is the first time akai has partnered with izotope and also retrosyms, 2 other companies for the mpcs os, The rens os is definitely going to be cleaned up but we won't have to wait over 3 years for them to still not have done it is my guess.
only NI has that size cojones!!!

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:33 am**

akai devs....how are we gunna make ren better than machine?

well we could go to machines website and copy all their features and whatever the longtime users are asking for....get in touch and really make it a dealbreaker

wait what?

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:55 am**

A lot of comment here, from my original post what I meant by integration with Live is that I have a lot of Live device fx which I'd like to use the Ren to control it. So does anyone know that the Ren touch sensitive knobs sent out MIDI CC so I can use them to trigger on/off button of Live device?

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:58 pm**

arctic ranger wrote:akai devs....how are we gunna make ren better than machine?

well we could go to machines website and copy all their features and whatever the longtime users are asking for....get in touch and really make it a dealbreaker

wait what?

i know you weren't being serious but if you were you'd a said the only feature akai copied was vst integration, and then you would've said but ni didn't invent vst usage so akai didn't copy that from them, the rest of the features almost all come from prior mpcs, as do all of the feature request over at NI…… those feature request come from people who've used mpcs and are wondering where those features are.

Posted: **Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:42 pm**

@starvingstudent remember when the 2000XL first came out and it was perfected by version 1.14 ? Yes, haters gonna hate. 1998 til infinity !

Posted: **Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:14 am**

obviously this is retarder.
Why do you need a soundcard into a MIDI CONTROLER? to fake that it's like an old MPC ?
I much prefer to have maschine + an RME or motu and be efficient than having an MPC ren and an half assed Midi controler + cheap soundcard

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