Ableton Forum

Donnie wrote: Driver issues and the 'need' for a TI chipset for example

yeah that.

i forgot about that... once i got a TI chipset

but yep... agreed.

Donnie wrote:I do have to admit that Apples method of forced upgrading is my biggest problem with them though. My iPad is only 2 years old and already too obsolete for an OS update? Oh, just buy a new device? Total BS! This is the main reason why I don't typically buy apple, you pay twice as much for a device with half the lifespan

it just erks!

Pasha wrote:Just another rant.
This slipped through..
New iMacs do not have FW800 ports.
Only USB 3.0 this means that

1) The audio industry has to adapt to new standard (in theory faster but still less reliable in sustained mode)
2) All Audio cards that we have on 'old' FW800 Standard will not work
3) Mac Mini and Macbook Pro are the only alternative with FW800 ports
4) Little by little Apple will care less about the dead standard
5) The Thunderbird to Fw800 dongle has not been thought for anything else than data transfer. Audio does not seem to work flawlessly.

What do you think?
I am curious about your comments/feelings on this

I don't think there are many devices and most likely no audio devices with FW800.

kitekrazy wrote:
I don't think there are many devices and most likely no audio devices with FW800.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_800.php

rikhyray wrote:

Pasha wrote:Just another rant.
This slipped through..
New iMacs do not have FW800 ports.
Only USB 3.0 this means that

1) The audio industry has to adapt to new standard (in theory faster but still less reliable in sustained mode)
2) All Audio cards that we have on 'old' FW800 Standard will not work
3) Mac Mini and Macbook Pro are the only alternative with FW800 ports
4) Little by little Apple will care less about the dead standard
5) The Thunderbird to Fw800 dongle has not been thought for anything else than data transfer. Audio does not seem to work flawlessly.

What do you think?
I am curious about your comments/feelings on this

Yesterday talked to German distributor of few major soundcard brands and he told me that they tested the Thundirbird - FW cables, zero issues.
BTW. wrong title, Apple surely does not care all that much about people on budget. Serious? Does serious carpenter buy the cheapest chisel or glue?
Alonso does not drive Fiat. When you go for entry level models from any company do not expect pro features.

You are right. The title was wrong. They do not care about musicians in general. Good to know that the dongle at least works as a fallback strategy. Thx for reply.

I had an interesting discussion with the FocusRite rep at AES/San Francisco last weekend. Yes, USB rules and USB 3.0 is even overkill for what is needed he said.

If there's any catching up to be done, it may be with the device manufacturers. FW had an early advantage years ago, but that's long been lost. The death knell came as the video industry abandoned FW. The new Apple boxes have USB 3.0 (much faster than FW800, and backwards compatible with USB 2.0), as well as Thunderbolt (faster than all of them). It might be time to replace your legacy FW-only kit with something USB or Thunderbolt, if a Thunderbolt to FW adapter won't work for your needs.

kent_sandvik wrote:I had an interesting discussion with the FocusRite rep at AES/San Francisco last weekend. Yes, USB rules and USB 3.0 is even overkill for what is needed he said.

RME say the same thing.

trilo wrote:If there's any catching up to be done, it may be with the device manufacturers. FW had an early advantage years ago, but that's long been lost. The death knell came as the video industry abandoned FW. The new Apple boxes have USB 3.0 (much faster than FW800, and backwards compatible with USB 2.0), as well as Thunderbolt (faster than all of them). It might be time to replace your legacy FW-only kit with something USB or Thunderbolt, if a Thunderbolt to FW adapter won't work for your needs.

You know, I still have my 2008 iMac with 1 FW400 and 1 FW800. FW400 drives Audio card and FW800 my HDD chain.
It works fine, stopped at Snow Leopard with upgrades. Stable, reliable. Sometimes slow at boot. Live 8.3.4 operates fine at 32 Bit and I cannot go over 4GB of RAM for this model.
As you might tell, I have invested a lot over the years on FW drives and the like. Now if I want an iMac I have to go for the new one or get an old one (USB 2.0) from a retailer which still holds inventory. Alternatively I have to go the new Mac Mini route. All Macs (except some options) have 5400 RPM drives but in 2012 this does not seem to be a problem anymore. Moreover all those talkings about Mountain Lion USB Audio support broken (Creative Audio was the first to write about it) really scares me off. Trading a working system for a one that possibly won't work is the worst nightmare... My budget allows me a MOTU MicroBook II USB Audio.. but will that work with new USB 3 equipped macs and Mountain Lion?

oblique strategies wrote:

kent_sandvik wrote:I had an interesting discussion with the FocusRite rep at AES/San Francisco last weekend. Yes, USB rules and USB 3.0 is even overkill for what is needed he said.

RME say the same thing.

So... it might be time to see some USB 3.0 Audio Card... anyone?

Pasha wrote:

trilo wrote:If there's any catching up to be done, it may be with the device manufacturers. FW had an early advantage years ago, but that's long been lost. The death knell came as the video industry abandoned FW. The new Apple boxes have USB 3.0 (much faster than FW800, and backwards compatible with USB 2.0), as well as Thunderbolt (faster than all of them). It might be time to replace your legacy FW-only kit with something USB or Thunderbolt, if a Thunderbolt to FW adapter won't work for your needs.

You know, I still have my 2008 iMac with 1 FW400 and 1 FW800. FW400 drives Audio card and FW800 my HDD chain.
It works fine, stopped at Snow Leopard with upgrades. Stable, reliable. Sometimes slow at boot. Live 8.3.4 operates fine at 32 Bit and I cannot go over 4GB of RAM for this model.
As you might tell, I have invested a lot over the years on FW drives and the like. Now if I want an iMac I have to go for the new one or get an old one (USB 2.0) from a retailer which still holds inventory. Alternatively I have to go the new Mac Mini route. All Macs (except some options) have 5400 RPM drives but in 2012 this does not seem to be a problem anymore. Moreover all those talkings about Mountain Lion USB Audio support broken (Creative Audio was the first to write about it) really scares me off. Trading a working system for a one that possibly won't work is the worst nightmare... My budget allows me a MOTU MicroBook II USB Audio.. but will that work with new USB 3 equipped macs and Mountain Lion?

it's seems to be mostly positive reports about the Thunderbolt to Firewire adaptors, so what is the problem? if you are worried about the system working, take your audio interface and hard drives to a shop, or order a new iMac and try it at home. if your are unlucky and it doesn't work, you can return it.

and despite what some people have said above, for technical reasons Firewire is a better protocol than USB. although for sure it is dying out...

fishmonkey wrote:

Pasha wrote:

trilo wrote:If there's any catching up to be done, it may be with the device manufacturers. FW had an early advantage years ago, but that's long been lost. The death knell came as the video industry abandoned FW. The new Apple boxes have USB 3.0 (much faster than FW800, and backwards compatible with USB 2.0), as well as Thunderbolt (faster than all of them). It might be time to replace your legacy FW-only kit with something USB or Thunderbolt, if a Thunderbolt to FW adapter won't work for your needs.

You know, I still have my 2008 iMac with 1 FW400 and 1 FW800. FW400 drives Audio card and FW800 my HDD chain.
It works fine, stopped at Snow Leopard with upgrades. Stable, reliable. Sometimes slow at boot. Live 8.3.4 operates fine at 32 Bit and I cannot go over 4GB of RAM for this model.
As you might tell, I have invested a lot over the years on FW drives and the like. Now if I want an iMac I have to go for the new one or get an old one (USB 2.0) from a retailer which still holds inventory. Alternatively I have to go the new Mac Mini route. All Macs (except some options) have 5400 RPM drives but in 2012 this does not seem to be a problem anymore. Moreover all those talkings about Mountain Lion USB Audio support broken (Creative Audio was the first to write about it) really scares me off. Trading a working system for a one that possibly won't work is the worst nightmare... My budget allows me a MOTU MicroBook II USB Audio.. but will that work with new USB 3 equipped macs and Mountain Lion?

it's seems to be mostly positive reports about the Thunderbolt to Firewire adaptors, so what is the problem? if you are worried about the system working, take your audio interface and hard drives to a shop, or order a new iMac and try it at home. if your are unlucky and it doesn't work, you can return it.

and despite what some people have said above, for technical reasons Firewire is a better protocol than USB. although for sure it is dying out...

Good point. If bought via web I am only risking the restocking fee.
That will be a safe exit...
Moreover we are in a transition phase. Audio Companies will have to adapt to new standard.
So buying anything in this moment is not a good idea..

Pasha wrote: Good point. If bought via web I am only risking the restocking fee.
That will be a safe exit...

depending on where you are, Apple has a 14 day return policy, so there shouldn't even be a restocking fee.

trilo wrote:If there's any catching up to be done, it may be with the device manufacturers. FW had an early advantage years ago, but that's long been lost. The death knell came as the video industry abandoned FW. The new Apple boxes have USB 3.0 (much faster than FW800, and backwards compatible with USB 2.0), as well as Thunderbolt (faster than all of them). It might be time to replace your legacy FW-only kit with something USB or Thunderbolt, if a Thunderbolt to FW adapter won't work for your needs.

Maybe because they know older stuff still works. There's very few cards using the PCI-x slots because they are not as good as the old PCI slots. I still prefer external FW sudio devices over USB. Usually RME will come out with something for the latest bus, others like Echo and M-Audio haven't. While RME stuff is great, I can't afford it.

BTW, it seems developers are trying to push the whole DAW industry into portability. I've read on other forums with the same complaint about Apple. It isn't just Apple. These companies develop software so you can record your guitar on a phone or some other miniature device. These same companies will update that same software while leaving other things behind.
When it comes to getting serious work done, it's hard to beat a desktop.

The FW800 connection on a MBP is not very reliable in a live situation.
If you move the MBP a little bit the plug disconnects with the audio interface which is not handy in front off an live audience.
for that reason i,m going to switch to a USB audio interface because the USB connection is much better.