Ableton Forum

oddstep wrote: Where is the return fx recorded? In its own audio stem. So if you play live you'll need an additional track playing the audio you created from the return fx. It won't be related to the tracks that hold the sounds you are effecting in the return.

Yes, it is a stem that just contains FX sends. This will give you the exact same audio when mixed with clean audio stem.
Additionally, you can resample tracks with FX send and have it contained in the one stem.

Yeah of course, but neither of the live sets described above want to achieve this. Imagine you have a drumrack and send isome of its output to a return with reverb, beat repeat and a limiter. In most instances you'd want that audio to be associated with the drumrack's audio, not capable of independent clip launching. Sorry to be blunt, but i don't think any of you are using this method in live set ups, or if you are you have a standardised return set up for all your tracks which means you don't need to bounce it down to audio. By posting you are adding to people's confusion, you are part of the problem.

oddstep wrote:By posting you are adding to people's confusion, you are part of the problem.

ThreadMusic wrote:Is there a way to do a Post FX output in ableton? Sorry, im new at ableton, coming from logic/pro tools.

Jim

Just trying to help the OP out and offer some solutions.

Have a nice day oddstep.

Yeah, sibanger. sorry I have a hangover and its darkening my mood. Apologies for the tone I used. We all want to help really, i could have phrased it better.
On a more constructive note: OP, if you want to convert your arrangements into live sets and want to replicate the mix of the arrangement closely, the COSM method is really good for simplifying an arrangement into something that can managed in a performance. If each of your songs has complex and varied uses of returns it may be easier to add these return chains to the tracks involved before converting the bussed tracks to waves. This isn't the only way to play live though. I do a lot of live playing keyboards, mixing tracks and messing around with effects. The challenge is to find a method that allows the live performance to be as expressive as an instrumental performance without exceeding your computer or your mind/body's capacity to multitask in an environment where mistakes are public. The best method is to try out a range of methods in rehearsal and figure out what your comfort zone is. Definitely investigate clip launching in the session window and consider the session view as some form of groove box or sampler.

oddstep wrote:This isn't the only way to play live though. I do a lot of live playing keyboards, mixing tracks and messing around with effects. The challenge is to find a method that allows the live performance to be as expressive as an instrumental performance without exceeding your computer or your mind/body's capacity to multitask in an environment where mistakes are public. The best method is to try out a range of methods in rehearsal and figure out what your comfort zone is. Definitely investigate clip launching in the session window and consider the session view as some form of groove box or sampler.

I completely agree with this. I never really loved the "Tom Cosm" method of performing live. to me this is only a small step above being a DJ. I really do wish Ableton would make a feature that could make it simpler so you can have a song per unique set. For now I'm just using delay pedals, loopers, and an ipod for transitions while i change sets. The gap isn't that long (<10 sec) so it works. But I really like it since some songs are more danceable, while others are remixes, while others are just lush pads, and I'm throwing in live instruments here and there as well. This gives me the most flexibility.

Awesome stuff here everyone! So it's now Feb, trying to get ready to book some shows and still have no idea how to create a live show with my tracks...

I've seen some pics on facebook of bassnectar at a show. 2 laptops. a couple scenes, yes only like 2-3 scenes and a CDJ...

What the hell is he doing there?

I can tell you this, Bassnectar has 2 laptops just incase one goes down. He also has a CDJ for this same reason. He has said it in a few articles I have read. If one laptop goes down, the CDJ can be used until the second laptop is all fired up and ready to go.

Personally I've created a set with all the songs bounced down to stereo audio tracks minus parts I want to play and/or manipulate with effects live. I have a couple of hardware delay pedals set up as sends and a hardware synth for pissing about.
With the stereo tracks, I break up certain sections so I can loop certain parts for blending the songs into each other or just keeping a certain section going.

ThreadMusic wrote:Awesome stuff here everyone! So it's now Feb, trying to get ready to book some shows and still have no idea how to create a live show with my tracks...

I've seen some pics on facebook of bassnectar at a show. 2 laptops. a couple scenes, yes only like 2-3 scenes and a CDJ...

What the hell is he doing there?

if you don't know how or what you want to do just dj it for the time being..

I want to perform my tracks live is all... but be able to improvise within the track... say, be able to play the kick and snare when I want... run filters everywhere... effects.... play just a guitar part... reintroduce parts slowly, etc, etc.... I just have no idea where to start....

The tracks are all done and ready, don't know how to transfer that into a live show though!

ThreadMusic wrote:I want to perform my tracks live is all... but be able to improvise within the track... say, be able to play the kick and snare when I want... run filters everywhere... effects.... play just a guitar part... reintroduce parts slowly, etc, etc.... I just have no idea where to start....

The tracks are all done and ready, don't know how to transfer that into a live show though!

This is how I work on my live sets most times.

Figure out how many tracks (channels) I want to work with. Am I going to be using an external instrument (usually yes) to replace/add parts or sounds to existing compositions? Am I going to trigger drums or other sound effects live? Usually I end up with a live set that is 8 or 9 channels, 5 of them are bounced down audio stems of the main elements from existing songs. Other 3 or 4 channels are dedicated to a drum rack, external synth or vst, miscellaneous sound fx/vocals.

Then I start exporting rendered audio set to "all tracks" of existing songs, open up a new Ableton session, throw those stems in, group whatever channels I see fit (grouping drums, rhythm synth with pads, fx sends to appropriate audio tracks) then export that again. BTW I usually leave out some of the send fx for reverb and delay and just tailor that live. sometimes you don't need a big ass reverb on your snare live. (i do some 80's style stuff) Labeling all of your channels through the process is very key here, otherwise you have a way to many files labeled 1-audio, 13-audio, 1-audio...

After I have all of the songs bounced down that I want to perform, I load the stems into my live template on arrange page. One stem on each track, chop the song into however many sections and set my loop brakets, then throw those clips into session page, delete everything from arrange page and do the same thing for the next song.

Next I put in an external synth or a vst and figure out what parts will be midi and which parts will be played live. Figure out if there will be patch changes or if it will just be a tweaked sound throughout the set.

My channel fx are usually always the same, I have a rack I've built with some of abletons effects, tracktor's 12, and some other bits all mapped up in a rack that is duplicated for most tracks. The master fx rack has other fx in it but is the same for all of my live sets usually.

It's such a mess though and you will most likely want to dropkick your laptop out the window when something fucks up. oh yes, something most definitely will. There are so many ways to go about it and probably better ways than mine, but whatev's.

Honestly if you make a quick dj template of your tracks and do that you will probably get a better idea of how you'd like to perform live.

i've tried many set ups for live (Tom cosm method as well)

and i can say (for me) its a never ending optimising story for my live set.

in general i am near to willdahbe's setup. but i do it more like a dj setup with a 2 channel mixer (so i can use a fader).

Cause iam using an APC 40 and a LPD 8 i trie to use a maximum of 8 tracks.

1. Group A - 3 Bounced audio channel (EQ3 controlled by LPD knobs, EQ3 Kill switches controlled by LPD Pads, Fade-to-Grey controlled by fourth knob)

2. Group B - 3 Bounced audio channel (EQ3 controlled by LPD knobs, EQ3 Kill switches controlled by LPD Pads, Fade-to-Grey controlled by fourth knob)

3. Group FX - grouped rerouted FX return channels (so i can have clean audio as well)

4. Group VST Synths - Synths i wanna use in live setup (mostly 3 or i only use 1 channel with chainselected synths)

5. Effect channel for Group A, so i can use Dummy clips to trigger FX

6. Effect channel for Group B, so i can use Dummy clips to trigger FX

7. Effect channel for Group A and B, so i can use Dummy Clips to trigger FX

8. Most of time Maschine is inside this channel


With these setup iam able to play bounced audio from my library, music from other artist. I can play VST synths live. Tweak the FX for one channel, the other channel, or both channels in summary.