How to make things louder in the Mix

[ian_halsall]

AH, the good ole debate "how to make it loud".

I am no expert in anything, nor is anyone here, but there is more to making things louder than just "turning it up" or applying a compressor or EQ. It is sometimes column A, sometimes B and sometimes a little of everything. I have done a lot and read a lot and studied a lot and am going back to engineering school again to study more. It's a continuous learning process and desire to hunt that perfect mix but since I am really bored at work and this forum is damn quiet today here is some basic info:

Frequencies - Know them. The audio spectrum is split into the 3 main categories (Bass, Mids, Trebles). There ar4e then different levels within these sections (Bass has Sub bass down around the 60Hz, Low bass/Mid Bass etc). Guys more experienced than me can elaborate on the whole frequency band but many times when things sound muddled or flat may be simply because there is too much competing for the same space. Find the Spectrum analyser and place it on every track to see how each one is performing. Find out what range the frequencies are playing in and try and picture where you need it to sit then trim off the space you don't need on each instrument (the highs off a bassline, the lows off a lead synth etc)...

Levels - The most basic way to make something louder is just to turn it up more, obvious, but this doesn't always work. In many cases especially if your levels already look pretty good you are better to turn other things DOWN that are in the same audio space than to push something harder.

EQ - Especially the graphic equalisers, these should be added to every track to make your tweaks. Instruments such as a bassline or sub bass probably don't need much in the higher end so you can trim off what you don't need with an EQ leaving the space empty for other instruments. Some bass may have overtones in the higher ends though so you may choose to just dip in the middle a bit (your ear helps)

Compressor - These deserve a whole topic alone as they can be used to just limit the sound, pump the sounds or as an effect with drastic sidechain compression etc but compressors can be used to stop audio clipping or peaking too hard. They deserve a lot of attention to get the hang of and I would recommend reading up and following some videos.

Reverb - Reverb can be used to add space and depth. Some reverb may just help to tail off the notes and create a nice vibe which without it would sound too static

Just experiment and play around because as the educated here will tell you it's an ongoing process and each time you should be learning more and more. Also, save incremental versions so you can go back and compare.

If all that seems too much/hard, just talk to someone in Mixdowns and Mastering because they will have a much better idea.

I think your claim that there are no experts here is groundless - explain.

[jestermgee]

Unless you have tried piano on Soundtoys Radiator or other high end tube warmer you cannot say I'm wrong. It works for me it adds subtle saturation and fatness which makes it stand out of the mix more without crushing the dynamics adds more character like running the track through a 70s console input amp. I'm not talking about adding a tube screamer or Engle Powerball.
You should lower the other tracks and turn up your amp volume
Use only one reverb for all the tracks that must have reverb = less muddy
The bass track always overwhelms the mix so cut it's lowest frequencies with an EQ this also makes the bass track more punchy less muddy.
If that is not enough use a compressor ideally with a vintage emulation compressor. The free IK T-Racks has a Fairchild 670 compressor demo you can try. Compassion has a few vintage compressor mods built in this plugin covers all types of dynamics. Live 9 includes Cytomic The Glue compressor.

Not everyone though has the cash to spend on high end plugins though. Most daws include the same basic tools and these alone can be used together with great effect when you know how. That is why you almost find a graphic EQ, Compressor, Reverb along with mixer controls. Additionally it is also why these basic tools are in many live mixers. You can go further with extra expensive processing tools like Waves, Isotope and the like but if you don't know how to use the basics first, the other tools will be a waste of time.

Before shelling out (or lowering your standards to rip off) the expensive plugins, do yourself a favour and spend some time looking at the basics of any DAW. You will be glad you did.

[d.reamonn]

Unless you have tried piano on Soundtoys Radiator or other high end tube warmer you cannot say I'm wrong. It works for me it adds subtle saturation and fatness which makes it stand out of the mix more without crushing the dynamics adds more character like running the track through a 70s console input amp. I'm not talking about adding a tube screamer or Engle Powerball.
You should lower the other tracks and turn up your amp volume
Use only one reverb for all the tracks that must have reverb = less muddy
The bass track always overwhelms the mix so cut it's lowest frequencies with an EQ this also makes the bass track more punchy less muddy.
If that is not enough use a compressor ideally with a vintage emulation compressor. The free IK T-Racks has a Fairchild 670 compressor demo you can try. Compassion has a few vintage compressor mods built in this plugin covers all types of dynamics. Live 9 includes Cytomic The Glue compressor.

Not everyone though has the cash to spend on high end plugins though. Most daws include the same basic tools and these alone can be used together with great effect when you know how. That is why you almost find a graphic EQ, Compressor, Reverb along with mixer controls. Additionally it is also why these basic tools are in many live mixers. You can go further with extra expensive processing tools like Waves, Isotope and the like but if you don't know how to use the basics first, the other tools will be a waste of time.

Before shelling out (or lowering your standards to rip off) the expensive plugins, do yourself a favour and spend some time looking at the basics of any DAW. You will be glad you did.

^ this. High-end plugins are a scam.

[jestermgee]

Sorry, there are always the odd few self claimed experts in everything and I am sure they will chime in any second to point out the flaws in my statements and fill you in on what is the real way to achieve the perfect mix. There are a few I would class as very professional on here and they offer mastering services but I am sure they would be modest to say they are not, like I said, experts in everything.

By all means if you ARE an expert then please help this chap out

[ian_halsall]

someone said this "I am no expert in anything, nor is anyone here, " which implies that nobody that uses this forum is an expert in anything.

I happen to be an expert in Hungarian Wolf-hair Tapestry from the 14th century.

So there.

[jestermgee]

Ha. I'm an expert in pretending I'm no expert in anything. I should have known better to post such a broad statement on the interweb. I shall now hang my head in shame and remember to think and plot my responses to specifically address the topics at hand...

And can I please get a quote for a long winter coat? Seems like the perfect place for my tailor needs now you mention it

[ian_halsall]

I am just being pedantic - you can get some really good advice here I think.

You can also waste a hell of a lot of time here as well.....

I usually add "I think" onto the end of everything - gets you out of jail every time.

[XSIMan]

@jestermgee I used Live for two years before I started using high end plugins I get more control and better results with them the ones I buy have been worked on for nearly a year before they are released. Ableton does not have time to do that for each plugin. Nobody can tell me they do not work when they do. Ableton replaced the EQ eight and added a compressor from a high end plugin developer Cytomic because they cannot develop anything as good.

On another note
I get my knowledge from the experts so if I'm wrong you are saying they are wrong you can get the whole mixing and mastering stages done with what's in Live but you can take it further if you buy the best plugins rather than use whats in a jack of all trades package. People on here should not be insulting people who come here to help.
I don't get this abuse on music production forums.

Add more insults if you like but I wont be back here again so will never read them. have a nice day.

[theswiftone]

Knowledge is power. I recommend reading "Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio" by Mike Senior. Its not about making one thing louder its about finding a balance where everything has its place. And mixing in order of importance. Might have to read it twice though it can be a lot to take in.

[jestermgee]

I thought I was giving some sort of decent advice with a small twist of comedy. Sorry to hit a chord (on my guitar while I write how awesome live is for mastering)

Seriously tho, you never stipulated your experience level and some would see this question quite a few times on many forums so don't get bent out too quickly, just have a look round at some arguments. . Just ignore the parts where I offend and take what you will from the rest. I did use some smileys along the way, maybe I need a few more

[ian_halsall]

I agree to an extent - I can't be bothered with too much mastering.

You're all gonna jump straight down my throat but I just put a limiter on the master and normalise it at the end.

I think the Live 8 limiter is quite musical and if you push up one of your channels really hard you can hear it push all the others down and you get (to my ears) quite a nice distortion (for the music I make).

I sometimes compress some of the sounds down with a side-chain compressor so you can hear the drums more - the opposite of what's being suggested here I think.

[MusicIsMath]

Firstly, here is a link to "Yep's" Mixing guide on the reaper forums.... http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283

I don't think I could describe it better than Yep has and it is a great resource

Have a good read through that and it will get you on the right path to creating a great mix, without the need for spending out for more plugins that often only confuse or add more issues to the mix.

XSIman.... You may enjoy using those plugins, but they are not the means to getting the mix to be more even and transparent. Highpass filtering on most of the instruments in the mix and notching out frequencies that occupy space where it is not needed is one of the first things to do. This will do more for your mix than just chucking a compressor/saturator on it.

[jestermgee]

I agree to an extent - I can't be bothered with too much mastering.

You're all gonna jump straight down my throat but I just put a limiter on the master and normalise it at the end.

I think the Live 8 limiter is quite musical and if you push up one of your channels really hard you can hear it push all the others down and you get (to my ears) quite a nice distortion (for the music I make).

I sometimes compress some of the sounds down with a side-chain compressor so you can hear the drums more - the opposite of what's being suggested here I think.

Can't jump down your throat for that. Using your ears to achieve what sounds good is part of the actual process. The tools in between are irrelevant which is why some can achieve such good results seemingly with no effort. Side chain compression is a great way, so is EQ, so is anything. That is why the OP should be experimenting and learning rather than asking all us experts. Trying to explain what you have learned over years/decades in a thread is crazy.

[The Carpet Cleaner]

I can do the mix for you, I take 100€ I accept PayPal and alcohol

[ian_halsall]

Yeah - true to an extent - but part of the process is asking the questions and getting the answer and then trying to understand the answer.

Can't really blame people for asking and trying to get there more quickly - I do it all the time.