Climate Change & Einstein's - You cannot solve a problem ...

[stringtapper]

lol.... Are you, by posting the above text and image, suggesting that I should kill myself to save the planet? Of course, this is only my assumption that that is your meaning (given the available evidence), but it not something that I 'want' to assume.

I'm comfortable for you to believe whatever it is you wish to believe stringtapper.

Not just you. Everyone. All at once.

Only sure fire way to reduce all human induced carbon emissions.

[Forge.]

Not surprisingly, Australia also tops the chart in terms of CO2 emissions per capita. (Note; the chart source is from the World Bank, put in for the pleasure of the conservatives and conspiracy theorists.)

Of course, it's common knowledge that your happiness is in direct correlation to your carbon footprint.

I used half a tonne of South African charcoal to BBQ two fine New Zealand sausages this evening, and I feel amazing.

[Forge.]

Not surprisingly, Australia also tops the chart in terms of CO2 emissions per capita. (Note; the chart source is from the World Bank, put in for the pleasure of the conservatives and conspiracy theorists.)

Of course, it's common knowledge that your happiness is in direct correlation to your carbon footprint.

I used half a tonne of South African charcoal to BBQ two fine New Zealand sausages this evening, and I feel amazing.

Sorry, my bad, I expected people to look at the charts posted by Forge to see that they were referring to the 'wealth' of Australia. Thus the correlation is that per capita 'wealth' is closely linked to per capita emissions of CO2. If one believes that 'wealth' equates to 'happiness' then I would have to assume that one is neither wealthy nor happy.

However, if eating sausage helps you to feel amazing, then, by all means, eat sausage.

Well, I just happened to have those graphs handy. And actually I also think it's important right at this moment to get that message out there really seeing as the polls seem to be saying that Abbott is going to win, and these people who are going to vote LNP will probably only understand it in terms of money, I doubt they give a toss about climate change seeing as Abbott called it "a load of crap". But then I guess those people might not click the thread either so the point is moot.

Thing is, in Queensland we had a quite good solar program under Labor — at least, it was a start — and it was one of the first things Campbell Newman's lot trashed when they got in. They're like bulldozers to anything that helps anyone but rich people, and they are not in the slightest bit interested in the environment.

I'm not naive enough to think Labor are saints, I just think Abbott et al would be really bad, and people need to get the message that there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to punish the country like that, we're doing better than anybody else in the world economically and in terms of gross national happiness as they call it in Bhutan.

It's like people are seeing the rioting and austerity everywhere else and thinking "we need some of that so we're not left out".

Actually, no it's more depressing than that, they really are just believing the shit peddled by Rupert Murdoch's minions who insist on asking about leadership challenges every 30 seconds.

[krulecello]

lol.... Are you, by posting the above text and image, suggesting that I should kill myself to save the planet? Of course, this is only my assumption that that is your meaning (given the available evidence), but it not something that I 'want' to assume.

I'm comfortable for you to believe whatever it is you wish to believe stringtapper.

Not just you. Everyone. All at once.

Only sure fire way to reduce all human induced carbon emissions.

Whilst this is the likely outcome of our profligate energy consumption, it hardly presents as a practical and pragmatic solution. Having said that, it's a more popular stance than mine, which is to give up profligate energy consumption (such as cars and plane travel). I wish you luck in finding those that are willing to lead by example.

[krulecello]

Well, I just happened to have those graphs handy. And actually I also think it's important right at this moment to get that message out there really seeing as the polls seem to be saying that Abbott is going to win, and these people who are going to vote LNP will probably only understand it in terms of money, I doubt they give a toss about climate change seeing as Abbott called it "a load of crap". But then I guess those people might not click the thread either so the point is moot.

Thing is, in Queensland we had a quite good solar program under Labor — at least, it was a start — and it was one of the first things Campbell Newman's lot trashed when they got in. They're like bulldozers to anything that helps anyone but rich people, and they are not in the slightest bit interested in the environment.

I'm not naive enough to think Labor are saints, I just think Abbott et al would be really bad, and people need to get the message that there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to punish the country like that, we're doing better than anybody else in the world economically and in terms of gross national happiness as they call it in Bhutan.

It's like people are seeing the rioting and austerity everywhere else and thinking "we need some of that so we're not left out".

Actually, no it's more depressing than that, they really are just believing the shit peddled by Rupert Murdoch's minions who insist on asking about leadership challenges every 30 seconds.

The purpose of this thread is to communicate with people who are genuinely (or at least claim to be) concerned about anthropogenic climate change (ie, something we are creating and therefore have control over). Those that are genuinely concerned will click through and take note of the links I've provided, some may even make rational and therefore radical decisions about taking 'personal' responsibility for their energy use. The rest will engage in the usual diversionary bullshit tactics that frequent this forum.

Australian (or worldwide) politics is (are) irrelevant. I for one do not wish for any governments to ratify my 'no fly' or 'carfree' principled stand, for such a ratification would most likely mean an enormous loss of personal freedom, to which one may as well be dead.

So, any takers on personal responsibility? (Stringtappers take doesn't count unless s/he's prepared to lead by example)
Has anyone actually viewed Mr Anderson's 'Going Beyond Dangerous' talk https://vimeo.com/62871951?

[Forge.]

what a weird take. How can government's stand possibly even vaguely be irrelevant?

not flying and driving isn't going to stop coal power stations or fracking or fund solar or wind programs. To have even a vague hope of doing anythign at all we need dramatic societal change.

I wish I believed it was possible, but all we are seeing from all corners time and time again is greed trumps all.

FWIW I just reposted that vimeo link on Facebook

[stringtapper]

lol.... Are you, by posting the above text and image, suggesting that I should kill myself to save the planet? Of course, this is only my assumption that that is your meaning (given the available evidence), but it not something that I 'want' to assume.

I'm comfortable for you to believe whatever it is you wish to believe stringtapper.

Not just you. Everyone. All at once.

Only sure fire way to reduce all human induced carbon emissions.

Whilst this is the likely outcome of our profligate energy consumption, it hardly presents as a practical and pragmatic solution. Having said that, it's a more popular stance than mine, which is to give up profligate energy consumption (such as cars and plane travel). I wish you luck in finding those that are willing to lead by example.

Oh it's never going to happen, which is the ultimate irony of the whole thing. Because it is going to happen eventually, just not instantly like I propose. Kind of paradoxical, the ultimate way to stop our polluting is by doing exactly what the result of our polluting will do.

The point is it's already over. Get your crossbows and studded armor ready.

[stringtapper]

So, any takers on personal responsibility? (Stringtappers take doesn't count unless s/he's prepared to lead by example)

That's the common (read: unimaginative) response to my stance. The reason your statement fails is because the entire premise of my stance is that one person or even 100 million people dying wont do jack shit. It's all or nothing and the planet is going to win either way, the question is whether it'll be a little worse for wear for a few thousand years after it's done with us. We can make sure it's at least somewhat habitable for other life after we're gone if we work to speed up the process (instantly, that is).

[Forge.]

let me put it another way - I include in that personal responsibility not voting for the party that is on the record saying climate change is 'crap' and trying to persuade others why they should do the same so that at least SOME action is taken.

Seeing as that's going counter to Rupert Murdoch AND Fairfax now it seems then almost the entire media is pushing their agenda in the other direction, then yes I think it's very important to make this point known, especially as we are only a couple of months from the election now. This is something immediate that we can do.

Admittedly I did hijack because I saw you're from Australia and you're talking about climate change, but it is pretty relevant right now to ensure we don't get a government that is actively hostile to even the idea of talking about it.

The Qld LNP have already demonstrated how much they aren't interested in taking any action at all on it and will even undo any action previously taken.

[krulecello]

So, any takers on personal responsibility? (Stringtappers take doesn't count unless s/he's prepared to lead by example)

That's the common (read: unimaginative) response to my stance. The reason your statement fails is because the entire premise of my stance is that one person or even 100 million people dying wont do jack shit. It's all or nothing and the planet is going to win either way, the question is whether it'll be a little worse for wear for a few thousand years after it's done with us. We can make sure it's at least somewhat habitable for other life after we're gone if we work to speed up the process (instantly, that is).

The 'unimaginative' and institutionalised response is the one that talk's in terms of 'success' or 'fail'. But then, that's just my opinion.

Stringtapper, I care not whether you believe my statement fails or not, I will make it just the same. At this stage your words, your stance, or whatever else it is you'd like to call it, mean nothing to me, for it lacks a backbone and sounds/smells/presents like someone who's saying I'm not prepared to give up my life[style] unless everybody else does.

Want to continue down this path or do you, like me, have better things to do with your time (read. I'm comfortable for you to believe whatever it is you wish to believe)?

[andydes]

Not just you. Everyone. All at once.

Only sure fire way to reduce all human induced carbon emissions.

What's the hurry? We'll be gone soon enough in geological terms anyway, and the earth will recover eventually. We'll just be the latest in a line of mass extinction events.

The climate change deniers case that the earth has been warmer before really does count if you don't care if people live on it or not.

The whole "the planet would be better off if we all died" argument is bullshit.

[krulecello]

let me put it another way - I include in that personal responsibility not voting for the party that is on the record saying climate change is 'crap' and trying to persuade others why they should do the same so that at least SOME action is taken.

Seeing as that's going counter to Rupert Murdoch AND Fairfax now it seems then almost the entire media is pushing their agenda in the other direction, then yes I think it's very important to make this point known, especially as we are only a couple of months from the election now. This is something immediate that we can do.

Admittedly I did hijack because I saw you're from Australia and you're talking about climate change, but it is pretty relevant right now to ensure we don't get a government that is actively hostile to even the idea of talking about it.

The Qld LNP have already demonstrated how much they aren't interested in taking any action at all on it and will even undo any action previously taken.

I understand what you're saying but I personally think that voting in a federal/state election every 3 years is going to do fuck all in terms of climate change, or any other major worldwide issue that gets bandied around on this forum. (At least here people still debate things, unlike the mind numbing platforms such as facebook).

This is really a good attempt at bridging the gap between the facts (as presented in the vimeo link) and taking personal action;
http://kevinanderson.info/blog/hypocrit ... y-example/

And this really points out why carbon trading schemes and/or carbon offsetting are a complete waste of time.
http://kevinanderson.info/blog/the-inco ... ffsetting/

For the most part, Kevin Anderson takes a very conventional viewpoint, he, like yourself, sees a need for governmental leadership on the issue of climate change (on this point our opinions differ). To his immense credit, he also takes the radical approach, (I would say rational, in light of the facts), of direct personal action. His words and his actions are closely alined. It's a refreshing reversal of the all too common "do as I say, not as I do."

[stringtapper]

At this stage your words, your stance, or whatever else it is you'd like to call it, mean nothing to me, for it lacks a backbone and sounds/smells/presents like someone who's saying I'm not prepared to give up my life[style] unless everybody else does.

My apologies. I left out some crucial information needed to understand why claiming that I would need to lead by example for my solution to be valid does not make logical sense in terms of the solution itself:

I don't actually care about this issue. It's not my fight. I'm just offering up the best solution I see for those of you who do care.

It's not going to do anything in the end (one life and all) but if you really want to eliminate your carbon footprint 100% then you know what you have to do. Just don't ask me to, because again, it's not my fight.

Good luck!

[stringtapper]

Not just you. Everyone. All at once.

Only sure fire way to reduce all human induced carbon emissions.

What's the hurry? We'll be gone soon enough in geological terms anyway, and the earth will recover eventually. We'll just be the latest in a line of mass extinction events.

The climate change deniers case that the earth has been warmer before really does count if you don't care if people live on it or not.

The whole "the planet would be better off if we all died" argument is bullshit.

It's not really an argument, it's more of a convenient way of trying to get people to understand that as altruistic as they wish to sound with all this "save the planet" talk what they really mean is "save my ass."

And it's not just that I don't care, it's that I have no faith that humanity can save itself, so why not minimize the damage as much as possible?

[krulecello]

At this stage your words, your stance, or whatever else it is you'd like to call it, mean nothing to me, for it lacks a backbone and sounds/smells/presents like someone who's saying I'm not prepared to give up my life[style] unless everybody else does.

My apologies. I left out some crucial information needed to understand why claiming that I would need to lead by example for my solution to be valid does not make logical sense in terms of the solution itself:

I don't actually care about this issue. It's not my fight. I'm just offering up the best solution I see for those of you who do care.

It's not going to do anything in the end (one life and all) but if you really want to eliminate your carbon footprint 100% then you know what you have to do. Just don't ask me to, because again, it's not my fight.

Good luck!

I read you perfectly well, thankyou My above statement stands.