Ableton Forum

Just an update... saw them again tonight and the sound was fantastic and the show was 100 times better.

I posted about the snafu yesterday mainly to make all of us who constantly battle with this shit feel better knowing it happens to the best of them, using the best equipment.


Dave

adhmzaiusz wrote:wtf

does that mean that they were pulling a kareoke act or possibly even a prerecorded lipsync?????

hell no, if anything the live NIN sets have been overly convoluted (being the opposite of prerecorded). I remember reading about the last tour and how everything electronic was triggered by Clouser's 2 midi keyboards (whose pc boards were wrapped in plastic to the extent that you could pour a bottle of water into the KB and it would not stop functioning) triggering EMU samplers backstage. The interview i remember reading was with the head sound tech and his main gripe was basically that the show was "too" Live.

Of course with this album, Reznor used alot of Modular equipment. Synths, and FX routing patches that can't be saved. So i'm sure they're triggering some Protools tracks via midi on stage to recreate those sounds from the album.

But for the most part... the live show is a click track in Jerome Dillan's ear.. midi triggering audio recordings of modulars and such, a couple guitars, 6 gallons of sweat, and Reznor's heart on his sleeve.

the fragile was all telefon tel aviv's work....

NIN started sucking after spiral anyway.

allert wrote: You can crash the DigiCo D1 or D5 (http://www.digiconsoles.com/) totally but the audio will keep running.

This desk and the Yamaha digital desks (PM1D, PM5D, DM2000) are far more common in the live audio world, built by manufacturers with experience in the field. And, for now, with a better track record as far as I know.

We've actually just had two shows come through our theatre on Digico consoles. Yes, when the control surface crashes, all the I/O (which is an isolated piece of gear taking commmands from the console) stays exactly as it was, which is great. However, there are many more issues that can bring a show down. Software bugs and static electricity occassionally created havoc with the control surface...sometimes the I/O racks wouldn't show up on start up...

Don't get me wrong though, these consoles are absolutely amazing and the sound quality is top shelf.

It's just that as the FOH audio world moves from the analog world into a digital one, there are a whole new realm of problems for the engineers to deal with....computer's crashing, buggy software, networking issues, latency....I'm not surprised that something like this happened to NIN's Venue

The flexibility and power of the Digico consoles and their ilk (Yamaha, etc.) combined with the smaller footprint make digital consoles an attractive option. Designers like them because we can do more with the shows routing and automation, while the engineer can just concentrate on the mix. Producers like these consoles because they don't take up as many seats, which in the long run, means more money for them.

reset wrote:NIN started sucking after spiral anyway.

I second this. The Fragile was a limpwristed version of spiral, and this newest piece of shit album sounds like gothic disco house for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I like disco house, just not in the context of Trent's jaded glory. I suppose he is just developing his sound, like any good artist ought to. I just don't personally like where it's going. Such is life.

Luckily, I just picked up that new digital remaster version of spiral that comes with a second disc of some of the best remixes and b-sides. Very, very good stuff.

I liked the Fragile as much as Downward Spiral, for different reasons. (Downward Spiral was about why you suck. Fragile was about why I suck.) I thought the production on the Fragile and on that tour was absolutely fucking remarkable. That was the most transparent, best sounding, most intense live show I'd ever seen. Which is why I caught their current mini tour two nights... hoping it'd be in that ballpark. It wasn't. But the second night when it went off without a hitch it certainly was still good, better than 90% of the other stuff I go see. I think he (and others) set the bar pretty high for that band, and there is no way his aging fans are ever going to like ANYTHING (by him or anyone else) that much again. My $0.02.

Didn't they suck to begin with?

I've only listened to Fragile really and whilst the music was pretty decent, it was also a bit samey and the lyrics were teh fucking criiiiinge induciest.

Set like a hole!
Computer soul!
I'd rather die, than
give Digi control!

Skinny Puppy last fall...
Now that was a hot show. Cevin Key was running Logic and I think Live as well. These dudes had a huge impact on electronic music and Reznor as well. I don't get so involved in the the whole "industrial" thing these days, but I was weened on NIN and Skinny Puppy. And I bellieve Reznor has more than a little credit to return to Skinny Puppy.

I have a hard time imagining anyone never hearing anything but the fragile and dismissing NIN's entire discography, entirely out of context. Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, and Fixed are some of the most contagious tunes ever. Downward Spiral is EPIC. Fragile... well after spending the last year playing with softsynths, I feel I am ready to give it another try, though I have limited expectations of the new album. I'll buy later- I hope I'm wrong.

It is possible that NIN never did anything origional their entire carreer (besides helping give frail, whiny white-boys sex appeal- thanks for all the 'Tang Trent!) but what they did (especially prior to 2000) is world class in terms of content. Can't wait to review his later works, now that I have a better knowledge of the Digital end.

I really feel that March of the Pigs is one of the Last truly Rock 'n Roll Songs.

LOFA wrote:

Skinny Puppy last fall...
Now that was a hot show. Cevin Key was running Logic and I think Live as well. These dudes had a huge impact on electronic music and Reznor as well. I don't get so involved in the the whole "industrial" thing these days, but I was weened on NIN and Skinny Puppy. And I bellieve Reznor has more than a little credit to return to Skinny Puppy.

I have a hard time imagining anyone never hearing anything but the fragile and dismissing NIN's entire discography, entirely out of context. Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, and Fixed are some of the most contagious tunes ever. Downward Spiral is EPIC. Fragile... well after spending the last year playing with softsynths, I feel I am ready to give it another try, though I have limited expectations of the new album. I'll buy later- I hope I'm wrong.

It is possible that NIN never did anything origional their entire carreer (besides helping give frail, whiny white-boys sex appeal- thanks for all the 'Tang Trent!) but what they did (especially prior to 2000) is world class in terms of content. Can't wait to review his later works, now that I have a better knowledge of the Digital end.

I really feel that March of the Pigs is one of the Last truly Rock 'n Roll Songs.

Well put, sir. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Thanks, and no need for sir. My name is Ian. Always a pleasure seeing eye to eye on this topic.

I picked up the new CD an hour ago. I have manually lowered my expectations, so I hope I am pleasantly surprised.

Aren't NIN a nostalgia act now anyway?
Not that I don't like Trent and his pale antics but he's been doing the same old for years now and no one wants to call him on it. That being said, there are some moments on the new album.

ultrasource wrote:Aren't NIN a nostalgia act now anyway?
Not that I don't like Trent and his pale antics but he's been doing the same old for years now and no one wants to call him on it. That being said, there are some moments on the new album.

NIN's not quite a nostalgia act yet. I think the new album could pick up if it gets through to the hardcore fans, but the band is far from nostalgic more because they still have a lot music which hasn't become a commodity in the industry. Yeah there's your linkin parks who add samples, but not many bands have a real legend in them.

I think NIN are now where the chili peppers were with One Hot Minute if you want to put things into a timeline. Trent's still got a masterpiece left in him.

Nick Maxwell wrote:

reset wrote:NIN started sucking after spiral anyway.

I second this. The Fragile was a limpwristed version of spiral, and this newest piece of shit album sounds like gothic disco house for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I like disco house, just not in the context of Trent's jaded glory. I suppose he is just developing his sound, like any good artist ought to. I just don't personally like where it's going. Such is life.

Luckily, I just picked up that new digital remaster version of spiral that comes with a second disc of some of the best remixes and b-sides. Very, very good stuff.

has anyone else ever felt let down with fragile when just before that they released such songs as burn, perfect drug and deadsouls(joydivision cover)? Those songs all kick some serious pantaloons, and they gave me high expectations of fragile. Only now have i started giving fragile a chance, and im starting to see where with teeth is coming from. The new stuff is so different, and i kind of wish it all sounded like pre-fragile days, but who knows maybe trent will go back and change it back to that awe-inspired phi-tacular enourmousnous that was

I spent the night listening to the album through (twice) while I'm packing. I have to say that although there is all sorts of wizardry, and countless references to earlier styles and hooks, I think Reznor is fucking up his own style, out of fear of being predictable. The only reason why these songs could possibly have so much potential, so much room to work with, and so many promising lead-ups to nothing, is that he's either more concerned with being unpredictable (to the extent of dissapointing rather than deep) or he really wants it to pass the test for Starbucks radio. I think it's the first.

Though I don't worship the ground he walks on, he brought another dimension of joy to my childhood. Listen Trent, just because being rich is the new cool, dosent meen your music should be flat. If your gonna whine, whine with the passion you had in your first three albums, don't try to pass your narrative off as clever or introspective, just keep it real. God-damn- listening to Trent trying to sound deep and clever is so much less interesting than when he was being weak, pathetic and human.

Of course there is no way to judge his work till you see it live. Holy shit, the Downward Spiral tour... Before Marilyn Manson was all hype and ego... Ruiner... The Monkey song...