Ableton Forum

The Finn wrote:Hmm my friends just wants to try her hand at it. If she likes it, then she can decide whether to spend money.

I think VDJ sounds best for this purpose right now.

I still have to figure out just how its approach to playlists work (what's with the 'side list' as opposed to the automix Playlist??) but other than that VDJ seems straihtforward.

I and a group of friends are going to club together to get a Traktor controller (this is South Africa, and our currency is not strong!) & she can join the boys when she is ready

If I may ask... and I'm being serious here...

1. How old is your friend?
2. Are you banging her?

Ajacky wrote:experienced software DJs use only either Traktor or Serato.

Says who? I'm an experienced DJ. I mainly use VDJ, but I also have Traktor.

Ajacky wrote:the waveforms provide much more information.

VDJ has waveforms too. They can be configured for horizontal or vertical scrolling, and can be multi-coloured.

Ajacky wrote:the tacticle feel of platters then that is also much better on Serato controllers.

Why do so many platter based controllers (including Pioneer) ship with VDJ then?

Ajacky wrote:Serato has more performance features for a professional DJ trick set like loop rolls and at least now also better effects.

Loop rolls and effects eh? Wow, just like VDJ has. VDJ supports VST effects too, so you could potentially use effects that cost more than the software itself.

Ajacky wrote:I haven't used Traktor much but it certainly is better than VDJ

Ah, so it's just better even though you've not used it much. OK....

Ajacky wrote:I have never seen anyone use VDJ with vinyl.

Well VDJ supports all the major timecode standards as well as its own system, also used by Numark for Cue.

Ajacky wrote:clearly is aimed more to bedroom djs.

Clearly according to who? I don't think you'll find that statement anywhere on the Virtual DJ website. If you frequent the VDJ forum you'll see lots of DJs on there who are using VDJ professionally.

Is anybody actually using Serato anymore? It seems like mostly it is a digital tool for people who can’t let go of vinyl. It’s no longer an expected skill for DJs, or at the very least it’s not something you need to bother learning if you are just starting out.

Serato software used to be exclusively for vinyl lovers. You had to have an expensive Rane audio interface to run it.

Now it's going the same way as VDJ. The Intro software is shipping with cheap controllers, and can be upgraded for a fee.

Serato have also added features to the software that the vinyl based Scratch Live guys would have looked down on.

It's still pretty locked down though. You need to have a supported product connected for it to work fully.

So basically Serato for pompous cunts, VDJ and Traktor for the rest of us.

Sounds about right.

JuanSOLO wrote:Traktor is easy to learn, and it's fun.

This

Does Traktor give you the amount of control over playback, etc as Live does?

Such as?

Traktor can do a few things Live can't, such as on the fly looping, loop size modifying, etc. This alone makes it much for flexible than Live for improvising.

Steve Ballmer wrote:Such as?

Traktor can do a few things Live can't, such as on the fly looping, loop size modifying, etc. This alone makes it much for flexible than Live for improvising.

What I like about Live is the very precise control over beatmatching and fairly good pitch shifting...

Says who? I'm an experienced DJ. I mainly use VDJ, but I also have Traktor.

Go to YouTube and type in the search field first Traktor DJ, then Serato and then Virtual DJ. Watch the first 10 videos of each and then tell me about the skill level of the DJs in those videos.

VDJ has waveforms too. They can be configured for horizontal or vertical scrolling, and can be multi-coloured.

I'm not familiar with the latest version but if it is so then nice.

Why do so many platter based controllers (including Pioneer) ship with VDJ then?

Ok so let's compare Serato controllers like Numark NS6, Pioneer DDJ-SX and Vestax VCI-380 with VDJ dedicated controllers like Pioneer DDJ-ERGO and Hercules DJ Console RMX. Go to a store and have a test run and you will quickly see we're talking about a major difference in build quality and feel.

Loop rolls and effects eh? Wow, just like VDJ has. VDJ supports VST effects too, so you could potentially use effects that cost more than the software itself.

The new Serato DJ has effects made by Izotope so I'm pretty sure they are better than the ones that come with VDJ. VST effects are a nice add on but are they really practical to use in live situations?

Ah, so Traktor is just better even though you've not used it much. OK....

Yes I can tell it only by the skill level differences of DJ's in YouTube videos you have hopefully searched for now and by looking at the feature set of each program. Take a look at the potential of Remix Decks and Traktor effects.

Ajacky wrote:clearly is aimed more to bedroom djs.
Clearly according to who? I don't think you'll find that statement anywhere on the Virtual DJ website. If you frequent the VDJ forum you'll see lots of DJs on there who are using VDJ professionally.

See YouTube...

The differences between VDJ and Traktor are so obvious I'm not going to spend more time discussing them. It's true that Serato is not very popular anymore but you have to remember that 3-4 years ago it was still the club standard. It also seems that the development is going more towards the new Serato DJ instead of Scratch Live and that is the software that supports some of the best quality controllers on the market today. I honestly think that controller-wise the closest you can get to a setup of DJM-900 and a pair of CDJ-2000s is Pioneer DDJ-SX with Serato DJ. And I also must say that eventhough Serato maybe a dinosaur (though I hope not), it still has a loyal fanbase of extremely skilled DJs.

The Finn wrote:

Steve Ballmer wrote:Such as?

Traktor can do a few things Live can't, such as on the fly looping, loop size modifying, etc. This alone makes it much for flexible than Live for improvising.

What I like about Live is the very precise control over beatmatching and fairly good pitch shifting...

Beatmatching and pitch shifting in Traktor are great, but it doesn't have elastic audio... If your tracks don't drift, s'all good

Ajacky wrote:Go to YouTube

You base your assessment of DJs skill levels on YouTube videos? You use YouTube videos to determine who's an "experienced DJ"? Give me a break!

Ajacky wrote:Ok so let's compare Serato controllers like Numark NS6, Pioneer DDJ-SX and Vestax VCI-380

Those are controllers which can also be used with VDJ (they have native support) and DJs are using them with VDJ without issue.

Ajacky wrote:I'm pretty sure they are better than the ones that come with VDJ.

The effects supplied with VDJ are just a basic selection. There are many more that can be downloaded from the website, and VDJ users are free to use whatever VST effects they choose. They're not limited to the effects supplied with the product, unlike certain other DJ software.

Ajacky wrote:The differences between VDJ and Traktor are so obvious I'm not going to spend more time discussing them.

Well that's the easy way out isn't it? I've challenged your comments but IMO you've not really come up with any good answers as to why Traktor is "certainly better".

Once again, I own both VDJ and Traktor. I know the differences. I know what each product can and can't do. Based on my experience of both products, the sweeping statements you've made are completely unfounded.

Anyway - you go on believing whatever you want to believe, but when giving advice to people it's better to be unbiased.

If your tracks drift just match them back up, old school style.
It's part of the interactive fun of DJing.

You base your assessment of DJs skill levels on YouTube videos? You use YouTube videos to determine who's an "experienced DJ"? Give me a break!

Generally DJs that have more name have more videos on YouTube also. And generally Software used by pros is advertised by videos with pro DJs. Clearly it's at least some kind of indicator. Do you think there is no logical reason at all that all the crazy trick DJ videos are made with only either Traktor or Serato?

Those are controllers which can also be used with VDJ (they have native support) and DJs are using them with VDJ without issue.

I have heard reports that platter control is not as smooth as with Serato when those controllers are mapped to other software. Also they are designed for Serato controls so obviously it's a smoother user experience when every button has a certain function and you don't have to map everything.

The effects supplied with VDJ are just a basic selection. There are many more that can be downloaded from the website, and VDJ users are free to use whatever VST effects they choose. They're not limited to the effects supplied with the product, unlike certain other DJ software.

Quantity does not always equal quality.. but I'm not familiar with any other VDJ effects except for those that came with VDJ Pro 6. And I thought they were pretty bad.

Well that's the easy way out isn't it? I've challenged your comments but IMO you've not really come up with any good answers as to why Traktor is "certainly better".

Extensive mapping features, good variety of native (quality) hardware controllers, effects quality & quantity, remix decks (which no other DJ software has), Ipad app.. hmm.. at least those come to mind. Of course for a normal club night you can essentially play the same set with any software. But it can't be denied that Traktor has more depth for those who want to dig deeper and do something different.

Once again, I own both VDJ and Traktor. I know the differences. I know what each product can and can't do. Based on my experience of both products, the sweeping statements you've made are completely unfounded.

I have not used Traktor much myself so I'm not the best person to comment in this debate but I have followed the development of DJ technology for some years now and Traktor has had some impressive progress. I am familiar with VDJ 6 and Serato however and clearly prefer Serato.

But I think the original question of this thread had something to do with someone starting out DJing and I would say Virtual DJ is very good for learning the basics and is capable of playing club sets. But like DAWs DJ software are also a preference thing and it's best to choose the software that suits you best

Steve Ballmer wrote:Traktor can do a few things Live can't, such as on the fly looping, loop size modifying, etc. This alone makes it much for flexible than Live for improvising.

Granted, for the standard dive into these programs this is true.
Yet M4L offers a lot for the world of Ableton DJ's, so do Racks.
Even though there are tons of ways to get Live to be a good DJ platform, you still have to force it.

For me Traktor can be quite deep, but it doesn't require that you dive in to all of that.
It's stupid simple to learn, and the journey to advancement is also relatively easy.

My Traktor set up is pretty basic, and getting even slimmer, but it used to be crazy bloated with mixer/controllers.
I used to use an APC40 with Traktor.
This is where I realized how awesome Traktors mapping preferences were.
It's far superior to anything else if you want to get into mapping controllers, ANY controller.
If only it let you use 3rd party plugs, and had elastic audio.

Again I feel like Traktor is just a lot of fun, and rarely leaves me hacking on some workaround.
I use Turntables, Mixer, custom small controller, traditional vinyl, DVS vinyl, and sometimes just the controller.
For me this is what makes it so fun, it supports all of that so easy.