Upgrade from Macbook Pro 2009 2.53 GHz / 8 gig?

[2pauluzz2]

Thanks a lot for your elaborate reply Khazul, much appreciated! I noticed someone on YouTube who was comparing two different East-West-sized libraries using a Quadcore and 6 gigs of ram; he's never had an issue with his ram so far either while I believe his business is film scoring. If there was any doubt left, your explanation has convinced me completely - although I'm interested in composition for film, I do not think I will even get close to what you're running anytime soon. I'll save myself the money.

This also reveals some of the cunningness of Apple's pricing strategies - I think a lot of consumers are likely to click that extra ram and other features in, simply because when you're configuring a machine as expensive and important as that, and you're not quite sure about what you'll need (as I was), you wouldn't want to risk burning your hands and so click, click, click and that's another 500 EUR extra for Apple.

But that's a different topic altogether

[H20nly]

Just gonna chime in here and say that i have a Mid 2011 27" iMac that i bought in September 2012. it has an i5 3.1 Ghz quadcore processor and came with 4 GB of RAM... i added 16 GB for a total of 20 GB of memory.

it makes no noise... other the than optical drive when a disc is in it and the hard drive engaging after sleep mode or booting, neither of which are loud or last more than a 1-3 seconds or so. Fan noise = 0, none that i have ever noticed. i have it set between a pair of Adam F5 reference monitors that are about 6-8 inches from either side of the display.

i looked at the article that Funk posted... The first few pages are people speaking to their 2009 and 2010 models because the thread started quite some time ago. if you go to the last few pages and read the posts you will find a lot of people that solved the problem themselves... they cleaned the dust out, changed the aging hard drive, or in one case... humidity had built up and it was cleaned by leaving it on with full power to the display and Sleep Mode off. so i gather from all of that... environment is a factor.

i have found that when i leave the machine on for long periods of time (days) it will be quite hot to the touch at the top behind the monitor... where the vents are. this is ALWAYS if i leave Live or another DAW like Cubase open. by closing applications that force the computer to stay out of Sleep Mode this excessive heat completely goes away.

up until this very moment the biggest issue i've had with it was trying to get Live out of full screen mode once when i entered it by accident... there were no menu options available and i couldn't get to the web browser to look up the shortcut i couldn't RTFM because Ableton charged $50 for that this time with Live 9 so i decided i would live without it. the only other i issue i had was Wifi related. there were some random drops... but Mountain Lion improved that and it hasn't happened at all since i installed Mavericks.

i'm not trying to confuse your decision making but i thought you might appreciate hearing a little more from someone who owns one.

best,
H

[TomViolenz]

up until this very moment the biggest issue i've had with it was trying to get Live out of full screen mode once when i entered it by accident... there were no menu options available and i couldn't get to the web browser to look up the shortcut

Little yellow triangle in the lower right corner.

To the OP: Make sure you can still upgrade the RAM yourself (on newer MBP Apple is doing away with this option - for shame )

If you can't, and you have the money I would get 16 GB.
If you can, go with 8GB and upgrade later when the need arises.
Or, that's what I would do: Get the last MBP where you could still upgrade HDD/SDD and RAM yourself. That's the Mid 2012 nonRetina one if I remember correctly.
Get it from the refurbished section.

[H20nly]

Little yellow triangle in the lower right corner.

nope... it was something different. i tried that but it wouldn't work... the menu bar would not return. i think it was the system itself that went into full screen.

i can't recall exactly but it was something like FN + up arrow + ESC that finally got me back to normal

it was a pain in the ass.

[TomViolenz]

Little yellow triangle in the lower right corner.

nope... it was something different. i tried that but it wouldn't work... the menu bar would not return. i think it was the system itself that went into full screen.

i can't recall exactly but it was something like FN + up arrow + ESC that finally got me back to normal

it was a pain in the ass.

Yeah, then it must have been OSX itself that went fullscreen (never done that before).
Because I'm certain that Lives full screen mode let's you exit via that little triangle. I know that so well, because it was a big relief once for me when I had finaly found it

[2pauluzz2]

i'm not trying to confuse your decision making but i thought you might appreciate hearing a little more from someone who owns one.

I certainly do appreciate that - thanks very much for your insights It can also be helpful for others browsing the forum with similar questions.

I've decided to stay with the Mini because:
- It'll be less expensive - at least upon purchasing, and I want to be able to continue working as soon as possible.
- It's easily expandable (at least the current 2012 edition is).
- In my current room, 27" would be too big to fit between my speakers and I do not want to change their positions because of acoustics.

To the OP: Make sure you can still upgrade the RAM yourself (on newer MBP Apple is doing away with this option - for shame )

If you can't, and you have the money I would get 16 GB.
If you can, go with 8GB and upgrade later when the need arises.

Thanks also Tom. I'll go with a Mini 8 GB because of what I mentioned in my reply to Khazul (Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:06 pm). The current 2012 models of the mini allow for easy expansion if needed, so I'll start with 8 and add more if needed down the road.

[2pauluzz2]

I've ordered a Mini i7 2.6 ghz Quadcore with 8 GB RAM which will arrive in about a week - thanks again for helping me towards that decision.

I have an additional question for those already using a Mini / iMac that supports Live in 64 bit: I'm now wondering if I should install live in 32 or 64 bit. I work with Live 8 so I'll have to install 8.4.2b2.

According to Live's FAQ:
- I can benefit from 64 bit because I have 8 GB of RAM. I use Kontakt so it could be beneficial as it's a memory intensive plugin.
- But Ableton does recommend using 32 bit -- "the 64-bit version should be used when experiencing out of memory crashes on systems which have more than 4GB RAM installed".
- 32 bit plugins are not compatible so they will have to be bridged.

I will have to do a check on all my plugins to see if they have 64 bit compatible plugins. If all of them are compatible then there's nothing holding me back. If, however, only a part of them are available as 64 bit plugins, I'll have to either bridge those or use the 32 bit version instead. I would rather not install everything in 32 bit now, only to find out later that I need to redo the whole thing to 64 bit.

- What are your experiences with 64 bit and 3rd party plugins? Does this work well in general?
- Or is it best to stick to Abletons advise to use 32 bit? In that case I'd appreciate a reply from Kontakt users, as the main effect of 64 bit vs 32 bit should be noticeable in memory-intensive plugins like Kontakt.

As always, thanks a lot for your input.

[edit] Khazul aready mentioned:

I use all trillian, omnisphere, nexus and kontakt quite alot and while I did hit the 32 bit memory limit on windows I only occasionally hit it on OSX. With the 64 bit version I have never hit it (and TBH never even looked at what the process memory use is) - even with a lot of sample based parts."

[Dragonbreath]

Good choice on the mac mini, I have a mac with the same processor as your old mac and my friend bought the i7 quad mac mini and its got much more cpu then my computer.

I would put once m4l convolution reverb on an empty set and it would run at 20%. He can put 10 of them and not reach 20%

[beats me]

I've ordered a Mini i7 2.6 ghz Quadcore with 8 GB RAM which will arrive in about a week - thanks again for helping me towards that decision.

I have an additional question for those already using a Mini / iMac that supports Live in 64 bit: I'm now wondering if I should install live in 32 or 64 bit. I work with Live 8 so I'll have to install 8.4.2b2.

According to Live's FAQ:
- I can benefit from 64 bit because I have 8 GB of RAM. I use Kontakt so it could be beneficial as it's a memory intensive plugin.
- But Ableton does recommend using 32 bit -- "the 64-bit version should be used when experiencing out of memory crashes on systems which have more than 4GB RAM installed".
- 32 bit plugins are not compatible so they will have to be bridged.

I will have to do a check on all my plugins to see if they have 64 bit compatible plugins. If all of them are compatible then there's nothing holding me back. If, however, only a part of them are available as 64 bit plugins, I'll have to either bridge those or use the 32 bit version instead. I would rather not install everything in 32 bit now, only to find out later that I need to redo the whole thing to 64 bit.

- What are your experiences with 64 bit and 3rd party plugins? Does this work well in general?
- Or is it best to stick to Abletons advise to use 32 bit? In that case I'd appreciate a reply from Kontakt users, as the main effect of 64 bit vs 32 bit should be noticeable in memory-intensive plugins like Kontakt.

As always, thanks a lot for your input.

[edit] Khazul aready mentioned:

I use all trillian, omnisphere, nexus and kontakt quite alot and while I did hit the 32 bit memory limit on windows I only occasionally hit it on OSX. With the 64 bit version I have never hit it (and TBH never even looked at what the process memory use is) - even with a lot of sample based parts."

A bit of drinking the Apple Kool-aide here I suppose, but I’m working in Logic Pro X now and it only supports 64 bit plugins. I’m also a bit of a plugin whore and wouldn’t say I have my “absolutely can’t live without” plugins. Many of my plugins I hadn’t updated in ages and this forced me to update them. It got rid of a lot of clutter in plugins I don’t really use anymore and at the same time re-peaked my interest in some plugins I mostly forgot about. It’s been a win/win and I haven’t been at any loss in music production as a result of that forced change.

That doesn’t really help your Live version conundrum and I don’t know how many third party plugins you have, but sometimes being forced to clean house in favor of the latest technology can be a blessing in disguise.

[Khazul]

I installed both 32 and 64 bit live. Ill use the 32 bit version mostly because I use sylenth1 a lot (not yet available as 64bit on OSX). Its only when I know I'm going to use a lot sampler plugins or hit a memory limit (quite rare) that Ill bother with the 64bit version, in which case - just re-open the project in the 64 bit version (after bouncing 32 bit only synth parts).

If you install both version, rename whichever one you first installed (the .app file in the apps folder) so that the second one doesn't try to over write it. They both share library etc. To install one on a clean machine, install and run on version to setup libraries, then rename the .app and install the other and both are good to go.

[oblique strategies]

Subject: Upgrade from Macbook Pro 2009 2.53 GHz / 8 gig?

I've ordered a Mini i7 2.6 ghz Quadcore with 8 GB RAM which will arrive in about a week

I'm surprised no one mentioned this, & I apologize for not mentioning it myself:
Apple is on the verge of updating the Mac Mini. Unfortunately, there is no clear timetable, but it should be relatively soon.

Check this out:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
"Jan 22 2014: New Mac Mini Coming by End of February According to Belgian Retailer"

If you don't need the Mini now: you can cancel your current order & then purchase a Mini after the update.

[2pauluzz2]

Thanks but it's already shipping. I was aware of the rumors but also noticed that "it's coming within a few weeks" has been on Macrumors since October last year. So I went ahead and placed my order with the risk of purchasing a 'not-so-brand-new' machine in mind.

I've checked what the expected updates are:

Haswell processing
This would be my main "loss". I'm upgrading from a 2009 MBP to an i7 Quadcore so I expect a huge increase in cpu availability anyways. Even when I would go full-retard on my tracks with all the processors that I have, I do not expect to be able to bring an i7 Quadcore to its knees anytime soon -- so I don't think (hope) that I will notice the difference between Haswell and the processor that I'll be using at all.

Iris integrated graphics
I do not work with graphics a lot, this machine will be a dedicated music machine. This is not a relevant update for my purposes.

802.11ac Wi-Fi
This machine will not be connected to the internet after the initial installation/registration processes. This is not a relevant update for my purposes.

Possibly Thunderbolt 2
Can live without.

So all in all: yes, I might have purchased a machine that will be outclassed by its successor, but I'm not going to sweat about it as it'll still bring me where I need to be. Note that I am not an Apple fanboy for the sake of having their latest gadgets; I enjoy products that allow me to get on with my work. This will do just that.

That's my way of justifying it I do understand the argument of 'wanting most value for your money', though.

[2pauluzz2]

I've ordered a Mini i7 2.6 ghz Quadcore with 8 GB RAM which will arrive in about a week - thanks again for helping me towards that decision.

I have an additional question for those already using a Mini / iMac that supports Live in 64 bit: I'm now wondering if I should install live in 32 or 64 bit. I work with Live 8 so I'll have to install 8.4.2b2.

According to Live's FAQ:
- I can benefit from 64 bit because I have 8 GB of RAM. I use Kontakt so it could be beneficial as it's a memory intensive plugin.
- But Ableton does recommend using 32 bit -- "the 64-bit version should be used when experiencing out of memory crashes on systems which have more than 4GB RAM installed".
- 32 bit plugins are not compatible so they will have to be bridged.

I will have to do a check on all my plugins to see if they have 64 bit compatible plugins. If all of them are compatible then there's nothing holding me back. If, however, only a part of them are available as 64 bit plugins, I'll have to either bridge those or use the 32 bit version instead. I would rather not install everything in 32 bit now, only to find out later that I need to redo the whole thing to 64 bit.

- What are your experiences with 64 bit and 3rd party plugins? Does this work well in general?
- Or is it best to stick to Abletons advise to use 32 bit? In that case I'd appreciate a reply from Kontakt users, as the main effect of 64 bit vs 32 bit should be noticeable in memory-intensive plugins like Kontakt.

As always, thanks a lot for your input.

[edit] Khazul aready mentioned:

I use all trillian, omnisphere, nexus and kontakt quite alot and while I did hit the 32 bit memory limit on windows I only occasionally hit it on OSX. With the 64 bit version I have never hit it (and TBH never even looked at what the process memory use is) - even with a lot of sample based parts."

A bit of drinking the Apple Kool-aide here I suppose, but I’m working in Logic Pro X now and it only supports 64 bit plugins. I’m also a bit of a plugin whore and wouldn’t say I have my “absolutely can’t live without” plugins. Many of my plugins I hadn’t updated in ages and this forced me to update them. It got rid of a lot of clutter in plugins I don’t really use anymore and at the same time re-peaked my interest in some plugins I mostly forgot about. It’s been a win/win and I haven’t been at any loss in music production as a result of that forced change.

That doesn’t really help your Live version conundrum and I don’t know how many third party plugins you have, but sometimes being forced to clean house in favor of the latest technology can be a blessing in disguise.

Cheers - I ran a check on all my plugins and all but the below are available in 64 bit:

- Fire mdsp
- TAL Dub
- Tal bassline
- s(M)exoscope

I can live without the first three and I might get Blue Cat's Oscilloscope as a replacement for the mexoscope.