Digital mixer with Ableton, good or bad idea

[Ryder17]

Something like that Tascam, but then with a channel strip.

So that tascam + a console 1 could work. But the Tascam is discontinued and probably, if you count up the price for each controller with an audio interface, you'll be more expensive than a Behringer X32 Compact or Producer.

The tascam sort of has channel strips. The encoders on the top can cycle through sends and pan. There is also an eq function but ive never used it

[fishmonkey]

if you are thinking to go with a digital mixer and you are using OS X, then the Allen & Heath QU series should be on your shortlist too...

[Kibosh]

I'm on Windows 7 but the A&H already dropped off my list because it couldn't do things I wanted: http://community.allen-heath.com/forums ... -the-qu-16

I also counted that I need at least 24 channels in total (analog in + DAW returns), so the A&H and Presonus ones are to expensive.

But I've made my choice now: It will be the X32 producer with DI boxes.

Thank you all for the reply's.

[fishmonkey]

i'm not sure how useful being able to patch your computer/DAW into an insert point is, since you will then have to manually deal with the latency somehow. IMO insert points are best suited to hardware effects with minimal latency.

one thing that would also drive me nuts about the X32 Producer is the smaller display which doesn't line up with the encoders (it does on the Compact and the bigger models)...

[Kibosh]

Latency was/is indeed a concern. I now have an overall latency of 10ms with Ableton Live and this should be the same with the X32 because it's the PC that gives that latency, not the mixer.

In a way it's the same is I work now. The hardware synths coming into Live through my current interface now also have this latency, but Ableton has some good ways to deal with this. And I already set this up off course with my current audio interface. Working with a mixer is the same, because now all audio in Ableton is also send back to my audio interface to feed the monitors.

My only concern was the USB feed. Instead off a 8x8 interface it will now be a 32x32 one. Lot more data to be streamed but I was promised this would not be an issue. We will see. If they didn't tell the truth, I still have the 30 days return policy.

[fishmonkey]

i'm talking about the round-trip latency involved in using a DAW in an insert point. in that case you would then need to delay all the other X32 channels to keep everything in sync. obviously the X32 cannot do that automagically, which drastically limits the usefulness of being able to route your DAW into an insert point. i guess this is why most digital desks don't even support that routing as a feature.

[Kibosh]

In a way I think we are talking about the same. Let's use an example with some numbers to clear things up:

The hardware synth comes into Ableton with a latency of 5ms. This can be tackled inside the ableton channel so the audio is in sync with the other softsynths used inside Ableton itself. Ableton processes everything and sends it at the same time back to the mixer. Adding for example another 5ms. Because all audio is coming from Ableton, everything is still in sycn. The mixer sends the audio through the monitors (or headphone). The mixer has a latency off 0.5ms which is nothing.

Is the above you are talking about?

At the end, all audio has to come back into Live for recording the end-result, adding another latency, but this one isn't important because you don't put the audio active at that point. Only for playback when all other audio is muted.

[fishmonkey]

yes, but that isn't using the DAW insert points. i was just pointing out that DAW insert points, which you mentioned in another thread as being a required feature, don't seem particularly useful to me.

[Kibosh]

ah ok. I meant using the DAW as insert points for the mixer as a way off explaining things. I will send all audio pre processing from the mixer to the DAW and return in the same channels for further processing in the mixer. Like you could do with for example external effects.

Good we cleared that up

[login]

Latency was/is indeed a concern. I now have an overall latency of 10ms with Ableton Live and this should be the same with the X32 because it's the PC that gives that latency, not the mixer.

In fact not, latency is results of many variables, the most important are CPU, Audio interface driver and how much processing power the session needs.

The audo interface drivers can make a HUGE difference, steinberg provides some of the best in the low-mid end market, RME is the best.

So no, don't expect the same performance from a Behringer mixer.

[Kibosh]

We will find out soon. Ordered one today, I can go and pick it up on friday.

[fishmonkey]

ah ok. I meant using the DAW as insert points for the mixer as a way off explaining things. I will send all audio pre processing from the mixer to the DAW and return in the same channels for further processing in the mixer. Like you could do with for example external effects.

Good we cleared that up

ok, well sync won't be a problem if you are passing everything through Live. but i think the latency is likely to be higher than you are expecting, >10 ms round-trip through the computer plus the mixer latency plus whatever extra latency is incurred by any effects that you are using in Live...

when setting up, remember that when configuring audio interfaces in Live, extra input/output channels increase CPU load as well.

one other thing, one of the downsides of the X32 is that DAW control is quite limited. that is a deal-breaker for me.

anyway, i hope it works out for you. one day if i have a bit more space i would also like to include a good digital mixer in my home setup...

[Kibosh]

Ok, a fast update. I've got the X32 yesterday in the late afternoon. I can already say that with my short testing I didn't have any latency issues. In fact, Ableton calculates an overall latency of 9ms with a buffer off 128 and all 32x32 activated at 48KHz.

So all audio from analog inputs are streamed into Ableton and go out to the same channels on the mixer for further processing. Then extra channels inside Ableton (for example a softsynth like NI Massive) is also send to a channel on the mixer. This seems to go also without issues.

I've already synced my Roland TR-8 in Ableton and here I needed to add +/- 2ms to make it sync with the metronome from Ableton. But with all audio interfaces you need to sync everything. Had to do this also with the Steinberg.

As for workflow, it's already more fun. But because this is my first mixer, I will need to learn some more.

[Tron v1.0]

I'm also interested in utilizing a mixer with the exact same scenario! Even using the tr8..I'm swinging toward the Allen heath qu 16 but kibosh mentioned somewhere about no ability to side chain,is this in reference to using abletons own on a channel because surely you'd be able ton haha pardon pun

[Steve Glen]

Why not an analog mixing board?