Ableton Forum

IllegalDiaper wrote:Maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe I need to mix on different software, but every time I go to work on a song, I start building the beat, adding on sounds, I EQ, I split frequencies, I compress, I parallel compress, reverb, I put all plugins on high quality, I've looked at hundreds of tips on youtube and other sites and my mix still sounds cheesy

I got a lift after I took up gain staging. Leaves me headroom for distorsion, temp fader raises and then some for mastering. Not that I'd do my own mastering.
Gain staging assumes you're working in 24bits, of course. Or not, but it's easier to apply in 24 bits because of the increased headroom at any rate.

Tarekith wrote:Try doing a mix with compression at all, I bet you get a lot closer to the sound you're aiming for than you have so far. At the very least, it's worth a try

I suppose there was a missing "no" there between "with" and "compression":
"doing a mix with no compression"

login wrote:Read a book on mixing, http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Audio-2e-R ... 0240522222

Dont mix as you go, separate composing and mixing stages.

Try to mix with a minimalist aproach, less is more.

Check out video mixing tutorials but structured ones which do it from the start to the end, groove3, macprovideo and others have this kind of video tutorial.

Dont expect to get good at it fast, it takes time and a lot of practice.

I've been reading a PDF I found of that book; it's a pretty succinct overview. Not much I hadn't read elsewhere, but the perspective on it all affects me. I mix a bit while I write, though, but only once I've hit a wall.

OP, have you tried doing A/B of your mix against reference tracks? Even A/B comparing other ppl's tracks against one another and watching how they look on Spectrum can be illuminating, just try to RMS match them first.

Stromkraft wrote:

Tarekith wrote:Try doing a mix with compression at all, I bet you get a lot closer to the sound you're aiming for than you have so far. At the very least, it's worth a try

I suppose there was a missing "no" there between "with" and "compression":
"doing a mix with no compression"

Oops, yes, stupid phone typing.

choose the right sounds to start with. Sample choice is key imo. mixing should come easier once you have the right sounds. I think sometimes you have to be more willing to steal than you imagine.
Use this tool to directly compare your mix with others inside the daw: https://www.samplemagic.com/details/184/magic-ab

Or you could just add an audio track to your set for Reference clips, mute it, put a gate or compressor on your master, enable sidechain from Reference, and click the little headphone to route the audio through. Map the device activator to a key or button to A/B between your mix and the reference. Use the sidechain gain to RMS match the two.

Actually, better yet vary the clip volume to RMS match many different Reference clips.

I go through phases at one point I was proud of all my top best plugins and had them all on a mix. Now I'm more into less is more attitude.

JoshG567 wrote:Or you could just add an audio track to your set for Reference clips, mute it, put a gate or compressor on your master, enable sidechain from Reference, and click the little headphone to route the audio through. Map the device activator to a key or button to A/B between your mix and the reference. Use the sidechain gain to RMS match the two.

Actually, better yet vary the clip volume to RMS match many different Reference clips.

I prefer your version. Use a plugin for A/B? I'm not raytracing the reference track. Those $35 is better spent elsewhere like on a more expensive reverb.

I posted elsewhere this week that I realized I could use this setup to A/B my OWN mixes as I work; I recorded my mix pre-FX from master into a new track and then dragged the arrangement clip onto my Reference track. I could then hit my A/B button and hear the before/after difference in hours of work. Super helpful.

Stromkraft wrote:I prefer your version. Use a plugin for A/B? I'm not raytracing the reference track. Those $35 is better spent elsewhere like on a more expensive reverb.

Something else I was going to mention to OP - I make notesheets for all my tracks in excel. I space the columns with labels across the top for the different sections and space the rows with labels for my mixer tracks. Basically it mirrors the arrangement view. I have space to take notes on my rendered mixes for each instrument at each point in the song. As I'm listening outside my work environment to car and living room stereos as well as different headphones I make note of my observations. When I have a full notesheet it usually means I have enough targeted things to fix that I can put a few hours in mixing again and make very certain improvements.

I should splice together the first bar of each mix I've rendered of the track I've spent the most time on to display the progression of improvement in each one. I've done 6 mixes in roughly the past 6 weeks, each one noticeably better than the last. The point I'm trying to make to OP is it doesn't happen overnight or without a lot of hard work, but if you focus on what you're capable of at the time your mixes will slowly improve in proportion to the discipline you approach it with.

I'm assuming as given that you've got a good tonal palette and killer arrangement, as others have mentioned the importance of those already.

XSIMan wrote:I prefer your version. Use a plugin for A/B? I'm not raytracing the reference track. Those $35 is better spent elsewhere like on a more expensive reverb.

don't knock it till you tried it. I have done it the manual way, it sucks compared to using the a/b plug.

There is a possibility the tools you're using are inferior. This may be a little pricey but it comes highly recommended: KSM150AP Architect 5

dna598 wrote:choose the right sounds to start with. Sample choice is key imo. mixing should come easier once you have the right sounds. I think sometimes you have to be more willing to steal than you imagine.
Use this tool to directly compare your mix with others inside the daw: https://www.samplemagic.com/details/184/magic-ab

for critical A/B work, this plug is great too:

http://www.meterplugs.com/perception

shadx312 wrote:There is a possibility the tools you're using are inferior. This may be a little pricey but it comes highly recommended: KSM150AP Architect 5

It's terrible, but I couldn't help myself.

It is and yes you could

I find it ironic, yet typical that a perfectly good topic is ruined by the normal sludge. Eye know I gave a perfectly reasonable response but that didn't matter.

Now, the sludge is at the top of the pile. So be it.