Paris Hilton 'djing'.

[yur2die4]

All she has to do is choose relevant tracks to play in front of people.

There are a lot of people who share her taste.

[TomViolenz]

There are a lot of people who share her taste.

You say that as if that were a good thing

[TomViolenz]

Celebrity guest DJs don't bother me. These people do not get paid to DJ, they get paid for publicity and to get heads through the door. Nobody who knows anything about DJing takes them seriously as a talent so there is really no point to get worked up about it.

Hey, at least we have a worldwide culture that actually gives a shit about DJs now. Once the fire dies down these props will be gone and a whole new demographic of dance music fans will remain.

Yeah yippy a whole new demographic of dance music "fans", who go for the big name instead of the music. The future looks way brighter then, than the present does. I can hardly wait...

[beats me]

Just sounds like a poor decision for a headliner by a promoter who is out of the loop. You have the majority rockers who don’t want this “Hollywood skank” tainting the noble pedigree of their rockfest and then you have the lesser crowd of people who enjoy DJ culture and they choose Paris Hilton as a headliner over the countless other more talented DJs. It’s kind of an insult to both camps.

[regretfullySaid]

You wouldn’t feel sympathy and admiration for the day long road she would have to travel from waking up and deciding she is a DJ to booking a sold out gig? And just think of the zero talent expectations the crowd would have and how she would have to meet those zero talent expectations. Much respect for the bravery that would take.

Sure, I'll take the bait:

I feel more sympathy and admiration for plumbers, a/c guys and truck drivers who have ridiculous quotas than Paris gigging. It's still a luxury for her as I'm sure she's touring in her own customized glorified bedroom. And the bravery lol, she's already had to endure worse. The least she could is at least try to put together her own mash-up.

Hey, at least we have a worldwide culture that actually gives a shit about DJs now. Once the fire dies down these props will be gone and a whole new demographic of dance music fans will remain.

Worldwide culture has given a shit about dj's since the 60's, and moreso since the 70's once disco came about. The difference is is that since the 2000's with the addition of computers and midi controllers, dj'ing has become a lot cheaper and easier, which means marketable. Since Marketing glorified the dj, it became less about the music and more about the pedestal.

Is it really that lofty to be a glorified playlist? From what I've seen of Hardwell, all he does is mix stems from different hit songs together for 2 minutes and repeat and the laymen think it's genius. Is the music good? Sure. But the dj needs producers more than vice-versa, yet the guy playing the producers gets to be jesus. Watch as the flock looks to the dj to know when the buildup comes and how to dance. Even beatmatching is seen as a pointless skill; you have your Camelot wheel to tell you what works together and that's why a company can make a commercial where even a fucking deaf guy can be a dj.

All that being said, I don't even think I'm hating on Paris. She deserves a chance, but being a headliner is disenchanting for people who love music and it's fair to say that Paris headlining = corporate prevails and nothing is sacred. But really kids, playing guitar in a punk band took more skill and not by much. you guys need to un-condition yourselves from turning human beings into symbols and messiahs. We're all capable of being 'jesus', take your eyes off the playlist and just close your eyes and dance, that's what it's supposed to be about, remember?

I guess I'm being a bit of a hypocrite but that's ok.

[Donnie]

Yeah yippy a whole new demographic of dance music "fans", who go for the big name instead of the music. The future looks way brighter then, than the present does. I can hardly wait...

However the same thing happened near the end of the 90's and that fanbase (many who started with shitty tastes in music) held things together for nearly a decade until the next EDM leap took place. I think the EDM base is going to be more important to the future of underground music than many realize.

[Donnie]

Worldwide culture has given a shit about dj's since the 60's, and moreso since the 70's once disco came about. The difference is is that since the 2000's with the addition of computers and midi controllers, dj'ing has become a lot cheaper and easier, which means marketable. Since Marketing glorified the dj, it became less about the music and more about the pedestal.

I think its just the opposite. Nobody gave DJs any performance credit until the last few decades (starting with scratch DJs). Until the latest boom, most people outside of rave/club culture still thought of a radio, wedding, or request DJ whenever the term was brought up. It was not until recently that DJing has been associated with performance on a wider scale.

I know because I grew up in the 90's and have spent the last 20 years of my life explaining it to people. Now I don't need to do that anymore. Now there is an entire consumer industry around DJing and Production and I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, it can be bad in some ways, but on the whole I think its good for the evolution of electronic music.

[Donnie]

Don't get me wrong either, the 60's and 70's WERE definitive for DJs, sure, but not when it comes to performance.

[beats me]

Worldwide culture has given a shit about dj's since the 60's, and moreso since the 70's once disco came about. The difference is is that since the 2000's with the addition of computers and midi controllers, dj'ing has become a lot cheaper and easier, which means marketable. Since Marketing glorified the dj, it became less about the music and more about the pedestal.

I think its just the opposite. Nobody gave DJs any performance credit until the last few decades (starting with scratch DJs). Until the latest boom, most people outside of rave/club culture still thought of a radio, wedding, or request DJ whenever the term was brought up. It was not until recently that DJing has been associated with performance on a wider scale.

I know because I grew up in the 90's and have spent the last 20 years of my life explaining it to people. Now I don't need to do that anymore. Now there is an entire consumer industry around DJing and Production and I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, it can be bad in some ways, but on the whole I think its good for the evolution of electronic music.

I think today’s rock star DJs are first and foremost music producers themselves. The days of packing arenas as a headliner just spinning other producer’s music are over, unless you are part of that late 90’s/early 00’s set of DJs that was known for that. Even then I think only Tiesto is still capable of drawing a large crowd just to see him.

Sadly the DJs who really use the available tools to the max like an instrumentalist (4 decks or more at a time, constant edits, mashups, loops, effects –all while keeping a solid groove without being distracting) don’t seem to rise that high on the ladder. Most DJs or DJ/producers treat the available tools more like a guitar solo – sparingly and randomly throughout a set, but don’t challenge themselves to really make a unique set that is more than just crossfading between hits.

[regretfullySaid]

I think its just the opposite. Nobody gave DJs any performance credit until the last few decades (starting with scratch DJs). Until the latest boom, most people outside of rave/club culture still thought of a radio, wedding, or request DJ whenever the term was brought up. It was not until recently that DJing has been associated with performance on a wider scale.

I know because I grew up in the 90's and have spent the last 20 years of my life explaining it to people. Now I don't need to do that anymore. Now there is an entire consumer industry around DJing and Production and I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, it can be bad in some ways, but on the whole I think its good for the evolution of electronic music.

Ok, then I think it's just a degree of how much someone is informed then, the level of how much a person is involved in sub-cultures vs mainstream. People who passively take in media from mainstream sources only know about what's on the surface so they aren't aware there are sub-cultures and appreciations for certain artists; they don't know those worlds exist.

I think where we differ is you put more importance on the majority and mainstream than I do as far as what is declared as valid.

If only 400 people were excited to hear a certain dj was spinning at Studio 54 in the 70's (if were were to pretend it wasn't well known back then), then I would say there's a culture that appreciates a dj, it may not be the mainstream or majority but who cares?

That's the difference, passive attendance ie the mainstream who don't delve further into the media they're passively taking in obviously aren't as interested in the art as the people who dive further into it (going to shows, getting to know the players history and following the breadcrumbs into more and/or lesser known works). Which means the mainstream isn't a valid gauge.

The fact that millions of people will pay attention and money to hacks is the gauge that shows they're not a good gauge. When you're young and green you think something is popular because it's good, not because it's been payed to be advertised everywhere and stuffed down the public throat until they give in and swallow it in hopes that it will shut the hype up (nope).

So to me the subculture that gives more of a fuck is more valid than the general public who willingly give themselves up to whatever the trend is to fit in.

Most people weren't aware of all the subcultures existed because they didn't have the internet. You aren't going to know that there were horse-cart wheel enthusiasts in the 19th century because there was no Pinterest. Doesn't mean they didn't exist, and just because there were only 20 of them doesn't none of them evolved the horse_cart wheel.

There's an entire industry around dj'ing and production because you can get a controller for a couple of hundred and pirate a copy of Traktor or Live if you want and play at your friends party.
There are billions of samples, contruction kits, stems, a capellas you can down for free (legally or not) and paint by numbers in minutes to make the crowd jump up and down.
It's cheap to make and it's cheap to buy. It's cheaper to fly one guy with a backpack than it is to fly a band and their their equipment. Of course there's and industry revolving around that and of course they're going to make the consumer think how easy it is to get to the pedestal.

Why weren't their millions of teenagers wanting to become superstar dj's in the 80's and 90's? There was still plenty of great electronic music and gear. It wasn't until the dj was put on the pedestal which means the music takes a backseat to the glorification of the person playing it. I can spend 20 years explaining why Battle Royale is better than Hunger games but that doesn't mean tons of people aren't aware or appreciate it. It just means there are people who don't pay attention as much to a field as you do.

In the end though, IMO, it doesn't matter. 'The evolution of electronic music'. I think it's a bit naive to think that the mainstream has to be aware of and embrace 'electronic music' for it to evolve. On top of that, the mainstream is mostly going to hear a mainstream watered down exploitation of some better electronic track that they've never heard. If some producer decides to do something closely resembling Aphex Twin as a backing track to some'The Voice' winner, and the general public hears it on the radio and think it's the most genius thing they've never heard before, they still have no idea that a (probably) better version of that music existed 20+ years ago, while a huge culture is totally aware of Aphex Twin.

So, mainstream is invalid, it's just a school of fish following each other wherever. And the art will evolve because of the people who genuinely appreciate and work on it, regardless of if it's only a few originators. In the end it will come to the surface where millions of hacks will exploit it and get the recognition they don't deserve. Marketing machine comes along with dollars in it's eyes and there's your industry.
So sure, it creates jobs, that's a plus, I suppose if there are innovations in the ways that people create music through different types of gear then that's an evolution (like when guitar distortion came about), but I just don't think there's that much of a difference when it comes to numbers of people. Quality vs quantity.

Well, I probably came across as condescending making redundant and simple explanations but that wasn't my intent.

Still, I bet there wouldn't be as much backlash if Minaj was headlining, because she isn't a talentless has-been.

[TomViolenz]

Worldwide culture has given a shit about dj's since the 60's, and moreso since the 70's once disco came about. The difference is is that since the 2000's with the addition of computers and midi controllers, dj'ing has become a lot cheaper and easier, which means marketable. Since Marketing glorified the dj, it became less about the music and more about the pedestal.

I think its just the opposite. Nobody gave DJs any performance credit until the last few decades (starting with scratch DJs). Until the latest boom, most people outside of rave/club culture still thought of a radio, wedding, or request DJ whenever the term was brought up. It was not until recently that DJing has been associated with performance on a wider scale.

I know because I grew up in the 90's and have spent the last 20 years of my life explaining it to people. Now I don't need to do that anymore. Now there is an entire consumer industry around DJing and Production and I don't think that's a bad thing. I mean, it can be bad in some ways, but on the whole I think its good for the evolution of electronic music.

I grew up in the 90s too, but I don't share your optimism about the future.
The 90s techno scene was like punk in the 70s in a way, an experiment of what can be done with sounds and rhythms. And just as punk it was also an experiment in alternative lifestyles. (though the live styles differed quite a bit )

Which brings me back to today. Where are the experiments? (I mean in the party scene, not some lonely Soundcloud links)
Where are innovative scenes rising up?! It sure isn't in Berlin, my hometown, which was one of the influental places in the 90s. Today it's all stale, living on the hype from good times long past.

Where are new live styles coming up that could be asscociated with it? Peace, love and Ecsatacy were the (albeit cheesy) ones from the 90s. What is it now? Celebrity big names in mall sized dance clubs? That's what the original techno scene was meant to free us from.

Or rather over hyped old warehouses with dark rooms and fucking Keta?!

I don't see much else coming up.

As I see it techno is dead.
Possibly electronic music will rise again, how could it not, that's how music gets made today. And Maschine is the new electric guitar given as a present to a 13 year old.

But if something new rises, it's not because of these celebrity DJs and the stale hype used up in too many TV commercials. It will be despite of it!!!

[Styles Bitchly]

Y'all are taking this shite too seriously and reading too much into it. When PH is involved, you can Fuckin-A believe that the project has about as much depth as a gum wrapper. It isn't about music or anything remotely artistic. If I were to place a bet, it would be on some sort of potential corporate tie-in....."DJ-Wear & Accessories"...maybe earrings with built-in strobes or some type of fragrance formula concocted to smell like sweaty ravers high on crank.

[yur2die4]

Talent no longer matters. And that's actually the point. There is a reason why there are distinct types of followings. Talk of old or underground music is basically irrelevant in this particular thread if you think about it. What do stadium djs and Paris Hilton have to do with that stuff? Probably next to zilch. Even of you reference techniques or music that predate current ones in exploiting specific techniques, they might sound like better tracks to us, but if you played it to someone with the attention span of a hamster, you'd have a hard time convincing them to appreciate it.

This is just the truth. There are many kinds of audiences. Many kinds of stages. A stage of turntablists would be annoying as fuck at some bars. Just like how having an ultimate rave dj stumble into a bar full of intellectuals and stack 20 epic builds on top of each other would probably end up with cords being ripped out of their equipment.

The ability to dj, or blending, track selection, mixing in key, showing your chops, are all pointless in some establishments if you can't play a single pop song that no one can relate to. Just as in opposite, having too much skill and no downtime would bore another audience. It isn't just the dj making the dj famous.

Some djs just play songs, really poorly ripped songs forced into a wrong bpm and already on the radio. I used to be severely annoyed by those types. I would be aggravated that a bar would even consider paying some guy that probably doesn't even know how to use his equipment to sit there and 'entertain' people all night. But that person steps up, and might actually have a passion for the music they play out (which I migt consider to be shit), and the concept of beat matching might be the absolute last thing they want to consider. To think that an establishment could instead pay someone with 20 years of experience, the best gear, and flawless technique, but not a single track that their clients like.

People attending these shows are not completely after credibility. So that can be thrown out the window too. They want lights and loud crazy noises. They want to hear really loud and obnoxious tracks with nursery rhyme breakdowns. Let em have it. Let them have their people wearing costumes, and being packed like sardines drenched in cologne. It is exactly what they are asking for. More then complexity or restraint. They are asking to skydive.

In the meantime, I'll happily feel some resentment, but also appreciation, for these fucks that seem to have the ability to pied piper all these kids with their noisy reverbs and their humongous snare/clap samples.


And I think Paris just likes picking out the songs that play at a party. Like any dj would like once in a while. I wonder if she takes requests?

[Styles Bitchly]

Talent no longer matters. And that's actually the point. There is a reason why there are distinct types of followings. Talk of old or underground music is basically irrelevant in this particular thread if you think about it. What do stadium djs and Paris Hilton have to do with that stuff? Probably next to zilch. Even of you reference techniques or music that predate current ones in exploiting specific techniques, they might sound like better tracks to us, but if you played it to someone with the attention span of a hamster, you'd have a hard time convincing them to appreciate it.

This is just the truth. There are many kinds of audiences. Many kinds of stages. A stage of turntablists would be annoying as fuck at some bars. Just like how having an ultimate rave dj stumble into a bar full of intellectuals and stack 20 epic builds on top of each other would probably end up with cords being ripped out of their equipment.

The ability to dj, or blending, track selection, mixing in key, showing your chops, are all pointless in some establishments if you can't play a single pop song that no one can relate to. Just as in opposite, having too much skill and no downtime would bore another audience. It isn't just the dj making the dj famous.

Some djs just play songs, really poorly ripped songs forced into a wrong bpm and already on the radio. I used to be severely annoyed by those types. I would be aggravated that a bar would even consider paying some guy that probably doesn't even know how to use his equipment to sit there and 'entertain' people all night. But that person steps up, and might actually have a passion for the music they play out (which I migt consider to be shit), and the concept of beat matching might be the absolute last thing they want to consider. To think that an establishment could instead pay someone with 20 years of experience, the best gear, and flawless technique, but not a single track that their clients like.

People attending these shows are not completely after credibility. So that can be thrown out the window too. They want lights and loud crazy noises. They want to hear really loud and obnoxious tracks with nursery rhyme breakdowns. Let em have it. Let them have their people wearing costumes, and being packed like sardines drenched in cologne. It is exactly what they are asking for. More then complexity or restraint. They are asking to skydive.

In the meantime, I'll happily feel some resentment, but also appreciation, for these fucks that seem to have the ability to pied piper all these kids with their noisy reverbs and their humongous snare/clap samples.


And I think Paris just likes picking out the songs that play at a party. Like any dj would like once in a while. I wonder if she takes requests?

All good points, but you can be fairly assured that whichever "tracks" are thrown down, it will all be pre-recorded and there will be additional "technicians" nearby behind the curtains flipping switches and stuff. PH will basically stand there behind some gear donning a pair of pink headphones flashing plastic smiles and an occasional off-cue scratch or two. Whatever form this escapade assumes, there will be an underlying sales motive.

[yur2die4]

Actually, due to my curiosity of the matter, I did look her up for dj news and/or controversy to see if she does anything terribly fake, etc.

In Brazil on one of her early performances she fucked up where a guy had to come in from the back and fix something on her mixer. It could be staged, but I'm pretty sure what the case is, is that they are trusting her with a live mixer. Even that is more than some could say.

I saw a video of some moments of her doing a set at a boat party or something. From what I saw, she looked like someone just learning their new job. She'd kind of cue up some tracks, do some minor tweaks once in a while, gaze really deep into the screen. She looked almost confused but more determined than anything. The mixing was not interesting at all, some transitions were a bit sloppy, but I am pretty sure she isn't faking it. I think it is easy to assume that because she is a mega famous pampered rich girl that she is clueless, yet there are many many many reasons and opportunities which would absolutely give her exposure to the rudiments of using a mixer and cueing tracks.

I respect her decision to give djing a try. Her gender/looks/taste can mislead us from realizing that she might actually be a pretty clever human.