IMO Soft synths and plugins are much better than hardware

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Richie Witch
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by Richie Witch » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:53 pm

Zyko1 wrote:I started with Ableton, MPC and Komplete and went into analog/modular synthesis just recently, and for me it's alot more fun than loading up a preset in a soft synth and tweak some knobs with my mouse or midi-controller. When you know that the sound which comes out is actually from an all analog synth where YOU crafted a (not always ;-) ) great sound you couldn't even think of before, then that's the ultimate satisfaction for me. And I come up with sounds I wouldn't even try to replicate in a softsynth because I wouldn't have imagined it. With the analog stuff there is some dirt, some unforeseen stuff happening which you just don't get from the all perfect, clean digital synths.
Thought about mentioning this, but you don't get a lot of modular fans around here. Totally agree though--modular let's you create sounds you couldn't previously imagine. I have no idea how I would create the sounds of my modular in any soft synth. It's just a different world.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to give up Dune 2, Enzyme, or Reaktor Prizm any time soon!! Heck, Deep Mono gets used in nearly every track I create. I love that free little mono soft-synth! :oops:
"Watching the Sky" ~ A 4-track EP of piano, strings, and Native American flute

pinkpaint
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by pinkpaint » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:57 pm

Hmm...

I think this is totally a both ways thing. With modern sound design and even the coloration i can get out of plugins there is no doubt I can create a very analog sound. For instance on Zebra I can make patches that sound very similar to my Moog Voyager. At the end of the day, the VST is certainly more versatile, easier to work with, and not to mention it doesn't have to deal with the recording latency that a hardware synth has to. I prefer my VSTs over my hardware synths but I use my hardware synths on every song for at-least 1-2 tracks. I will say, there are sounds on my voyager that I have never been able to really make with a vst..

Heres the thing, a VST comes with so much processing they have fx and modulators that can modulate essentially anything. No hardware synth can really compete with that..

but hardware gives off inspiration that staring at your computer doesn't give... that alone isnt worth the expense of hardware but it certainly gives you vibes.

mholloway
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mholloway » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:10 pm

Richie Witch wrote:What hasn't been mentioned yet....

That softsynth you've been using for the last three years is no longer supported by the current OS/DAW.

Your hardware synth is 20 years old and still plays like the day you bought it.

8)
That only very rarely actually happens, though, and is usually corrected within a month of the OS update. But nice try! Sylenth1 is the only case I can think of where it took a really long time to go 64bit, and that was just on Mac. Otherwise, everything pretty much keeps up.

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

mholloway
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mholloway » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:14 pm

Emanresu0891 wrote:The library where I live allows me to check out synthesizers and effects so the last few weeks I have demo'd a lot of hardware. I have to say in my opinion software blows the shit out of hardware. When it comes to versatility, ease of use, preset management, and the time and energy(including electrical energy) saved software is soooooo much better.

For a while I thought that maybe I was missing something not having a real synth. Now the only thing I can think of that I am missing is the headaches that come along with hardware. With software you really can get the same sounds or better than you get with analog and digital hardware.

I have read so many threads where guitarist prefer individual pedals over a multi effects units and they won't even touch software. I now feel these people must be stuck in some time warp. This is all Imho of course, but I really do not think a stomp box chorus sounds better than the software version of the same chorus. They might sound slightly different but definitely not better.
There is no lack of sound quality when choosing software over a hardware effect. I have found it to be the opposite.... software effects usually sounds better.
Most stomp boxes only do mono, plugins usually can be mono or stereo. Then there is all the cables and wasted power involved and the lack of preset saving..... really what is the point here? Nostalgia?

Now there is the analogue synths. I have only used the newest ones, but I didn't find any of them to sound better than my plugins. Most of these hardware synths I used where monophonic and could only be recorded in single channel mono. Also not many analog synths have preset saving nor do they come with effects.
I feel it took me 3 times as long to program a so so patch as would for me to program something really good in a soft synth equivalent. So again what is the point here? Nostalgia again? Do some people enjoy looking for the right ac adapter, plugging in leads and then twiddling away at something that has no recall? Is it all ego?

The only type of hardware I can see myself buying in the future is midi controllers. Listen up kids: unless the hardware does something that no software can do in an easy package (korg kaossilator for instance) a midi controller built for whatever purpose you need (foot pedal, keyboard, ect.) is really the only hardware you need to make music. Of course if you play a traditional instrument you need the traditional instrument, but when it comes to synths and effects in my opinion software is the way to go and has been for years.

some of the synths I took home and used:
moog sub phatty (can be done with ease with Diva)
korg arp odyssey (the software version is miles better)
korg ms20 mini (the software version is different but does not sound worse and is easier to use)
a semi modular unit I never heard of
arturia mini brute (junk)
Roland Tr-8 (so unnecessary )
Some junk korg mini synths that look like the 303 (again why?)

And many stomp box effects/ multi effect units.

When it comes to the bloated guitar amp I really doubt anyone is going to be able to tell the difference between the oversaturated market of amps vs the oversaturated market of amp sims within a recording....maybe you would notice something if the guitar was being played on its own with out backing music, but it still will not sound better just different.
All I can really say is..... +1,000,000,000,000,000,000

You nailed it. I get the appeal of vintage, boutique synths (Minimoog, Prophet 5, Arp 2600, etc), in the sense that their value / quality is on par with, well, why a guy who is into old cars would want to own vintage cars. This analogy extends to the usefulness of vintage cars for actual driving to vintage synths usefulness vs. the modern software equivalents, imo, for creating music...
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

mekanism1200
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mekanism1200 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:36 pm

I disagree. I was finally able to play with a Moog Sub Phatty a little while ago and you can almost feel the electricity as you played it, and there was definitely a warmer (organic) tone to every sound. Its also super fun to twist knobs! :lol:

I think having a touch screen with some kind of vibrating feedback would be the closest thing in the future to a hardware synth.

But...hardware is expensive as fuck!

Emanresu0891
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by Emanresu0891 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:13 pm

I mostly posted this for kids who might be just starting out. When I first started making music with computers the synths and effects where not that great ( NI's pro 53, the stock synths in cubase ect. ). Back then I was a kid just starting out and would always run into the analogue crowd basically saying its useless to try to make music with soft synths and effects and you need some hardware unit to create professional sounding recordings.
That might have been the case back then, but it's obviously not true nowadays .

I like the old car collection analogy that was made and that is how I view the collection of hardware.
There certainly is a wow factor from stepping in a room full of hardware, but there are some massive drawbacks when making music only with hardware. My biggest issue with the hardware is the amount of space it takes up and clutter it creates for such little pay off. Then there is the cost factor and the amount of time spent setting everything up.
Does it really sound better? I don't think so. Does it sound different? Slightly and only sometimes.

If you are in your teens or early 20s (or older) and you are just starting out don't worry if you have everything you need or if you need new gear. You are well taken care of if you have a decent computer and some controllers. All you need is to make some good music.

If you only use traditional instruments all you need is a good instrument. You are also well taken care of within the world of plugin ex's

For those asking where I live and what library I go to I currently live in Ann Arbor Michigan. I move around a lot and just happened to find out about this library on reddit. I think its a great idea to offer music gear for people to check out and take home. I suggest you guys start pestering your local library to offer the same services as the library in Ann Arbor. Besides loaning out music gear they also loan out science tools like telescopes and even mini solar panels. Its a great service that offers anyone basic tools to people who would not be able to afford them or to some one who likes to try before they buy.
Last edited by Emanresu0891 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mholloway
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mholloway » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:14 pm

Did you hear that, guys? IT SOUNDS WARMER. :lol:
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

mekanism1200
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mekanism1200 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:10 pm

mholloway wrote:Did you hear that, guys? IT SOUNDS WARMER. :lol:
Like warm apple pie! :lol:

Machinesworking
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:19 am

BoddAH wrote:Depends on what you want to do. If you’re a computer-based music producer, sound wise, I think that there really is no point in using hardware over software anymore.
Almost every successful music producer I can think of has a computer based studio, filled with hardware. If one can afford it, hardware will always have a place, but I think it's safe to say that you're not missing a lot 'sound' wise if you only have software.
To people who make their living with computers and music it's not an either/or thing. Just like they tend to have a PC around even if they're mostly using macs and visa versa.
There is a sort of irony in arguing that choices are a good thing on a web site put out by a company that is renowned for it's stripped down approach. :x

Machinesworking
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:30 am

mholloway wrote:
Richie Witch wrote:What hasn't been mentioned yet....

That softsynth you've been using for the last three years is no longer supported by the current OS/DAW.

Your hardware synth is 20 years old and still plays like the day you bought it.

8)
That only very rarely actually happens, though, and is usually corrected within a month of the OS update. But nice try! Sylenth1 is the only case I can think of where it took a really long time to go 64bit, and that was just on Mac. Otherwise, everything pretty much keeps up.

-M
Alchemy
Camel Phat
Camel Space
Kore
SpeKtral Delay
Kompact
Pluggo
B4
Pro 51


That's off the top of my head plug ins that are now discontinued that will eventually break on a new OS, or in the case of some, have already broken, that I've owned. I don't include things like FM7 for instance not working on modern OS's although NI still make the product, just relabeled FM8..... and all you have to do when x software company upgrades and drops support for your old software is change every patch in every song you're working on...

Just to really sink it in, in DP9 I send a SysEx from the Xpander directly into the song I'm working on and 20 years from now an Xpander will open that patch just fine, in whatever DAW is running on the latest computers of the day. Backwards compatibility is a major advantage of hardware for sure.

yup yup
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by yup yup » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:54 am

This same post that has been going on a good 20 years. And you talk about getting with the times!!
:roll: YAWN

Mister Natural
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by Mister Natural » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:44 am

two bits of feedback I could offer here :
1. I always wanted to but I could NEVER afford real hardware synths - the ability to use VSTs has changed my life
2. I can speak more accurately about the diff between VST EFX hard & soft and can say with absolute certainty; never going back to hardware.
So much more versatility with software amps, verbs, delays, etc. Anyone who says that their GTR tube amp sounds more "organic" or whatever than a (well dialed-in)soft sim is speaking purely from nostalgia-land. I call bull&%#t on that

peace
expert only on what it feels like to be me
#smile

mholloway
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mholloway » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:24 am

Machinesworking wrote:
mholloway wrote:
Richie Witch wrote:What hasn't been mentioned yet....

That softsynth you've been using for the last three years is no longer supported by the current OS/DAW.

Your hardware synth is 20 years old and still plays like the day you bought it.

8)
That only very rarely actually happens, though, and is usually corrected within a month of the OS update. But nice try! Sylenth1 is the only case I can think of where it took a really long time to go 64bit, and that was just on Mac. Otherwise, everything pretty much keeps up.

-M
Alchemy
Camel Phat
Camel Space
Kore
SpeKtral Delay
Kompact
Pluggo
B4
Pro 51


That's off the top of my head plug ins that are now discontinued that will eventually break on a new OS, or in the case of some, have already broken, that I've owned. I don't include things like FM7 for instance not working on modern OS's although NI still make the product, just relabeled FM8..... and all you have to do when x software company upgrades and drops support for your old software is change every patch in every song you're working on...

Just to really sink it in, in DP9 I send a SysEx from the Xpander directly into the song I'm working on and 20 years from now an Xpander will open that patch just fine, in whatever DAW is running on the latest computers of the day. Backwards compatibility is a major advantage of hardware for sure.

So you listed a few discontinued NI products that nobody really gives a shit about, and a bunch of Camel Audio stuff because we know they all ditched everybody but Mac users, etc. Plus a couple things I've never heard of. So, weighing this against the balance of every other plugin product out there on the market, I'm going to stick to my original claim: software becoming unsupported on a current OS happens very rarely.

But seriously, this is an argument for spending thousands on hardware?? :roll:
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

mrgrim3
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by mrgrim3 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:36 am

I only use the plugins and synths that came with ableton suite and Cubase pro 8

the only 3rd party vst I have are sonivox twist 2.0 and air xpand!2 and soundtoys little alter boy i got xpand and twist with midi controller and little alterboy i just saw was free one day

sonivox twist just sucks imo it has some nice sounds you know but it never fits in any of my projects

air xpand!2 kind of sucks also because a lot of the sounds depend on heavy delays and reverbs so they don't really fit my tracks and when I disable the fx I swear they still have fx on them in the original sample or whatever

little alter boy i literally never use it and it has something like 2 thousand millisecond latency

ive been thinking about buying plugins for a while but I cannot really justify it with what I have from having the daws I do

probably if I did buy something it would be absolute 2 by Steinberg just because of vst expression compatability in Cubase

i just think there are a lot of crappy software out there and also crappy sample packs , imo they both target new people when you can make most sounds you hear with lots of different synths and fx hardware or software

i do think hardware synths sound different from eachother because no 2 synths have the same circuitry and those subjective descriptors like color and warmth come from that , idk if it is really true but i just think

pencilrocket
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Re: Soft synths and plugins are so much better than hardware

Post by pencilrocket » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:47 am

Goddard wrote:
Richie Witch wrote:That softsynth you've been using for the last three years is no longer supported by the current OS/DAW
Can't agree more... That's why only idiots upgrade (sic!) their OS...
Every MacOS after 10.6.8 is nothing, but failure.
I wish that music software developers would quit their pursuit to made their bug free plug ins and even DAWs to work with OS that is nothing, but a facebook and twitter extension...
It's completely insane to "upgrade" to some Mavericks or Yosemite and complain that Live is buggy!
Grew up morons!
you can't satisfy fanboys in that way :lol:

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