Why do we make music?

[beats me]

For pussy and money of course...
Too old for drugs unfortunately...

I think even the money doesn't really factor in. Maybe it did for a brief period in the second half of last century when people started believing the get rich quick mythology because of the small number who did. But I reckon the vast majority of people I've ever taught music to didn't see it as a money thing, they just wanted to be making tunes, and up on stage being adored.

Even back in 1879 Darwin talked about a musical proto-language before language evolved for attracting mates. I think sex and reproduction is definitely one of the main factors, and some of the best musicians have been totally up front about that. This is also why some of the most creative musicians have been young and many lose the spark when we get older and have kids. Once you've procreated the biological imperative isn't as strong. Unless you're one of those scatter-gun dudes who want to spread their influence far and wide.

Still blows my mind that the Beatles were only just hitting 30 when they split. In their 20s when they did Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road. Fkn snot-nosed whipper snappers.

I do find myself sometimes pondering how despite our evolutionary intelligence sex drive still plays a big part in our motivation from feeling you need to reproduce to rubbing one out instead of working on music or something else more productive. How many shit relationships wouldn’t have happened or been prolonged if sex wasn’t a factor? How many violent crimes would be avoided if it weren’t for sex fueled jealousy? Biologically we haven’t evolved much in that department and if you don’t have a healthy sex drive people think it’s some kind of mental imbalance that can now be treated with a plethora of medication.

[Forge.]

Well it just has to feature prominently or it's all academic. If that drive wasn't there we, and by extension everything we do, would basically be a one off.

Doesn't invalidate it though. Continuing our particular version of this weird genetic lottery isn't the only thing that validates the time we spend here.

Is slightly depressing sometimes though to see how many smart and talented people don't have kids or have any plans to, while other dickheads who rarely have a creative thought might have 12. That's what Idiocracy was all about.

Maybe that's the point of this thread though — non-biological legacy.

[beats me]

Maybe that's the point of this thread though — non-biological legacy.

Which is kind of what I said in my first response.

When you die it’s something people can listen to, to remember you by while entertaining the possibility that you had more depth than they ever gave you credit for.

Think of all the people that bum rush a successful artist’s catalog when they die after not listening to them for years or in some cases not at all, and then hear the music in a profound way they never did when the artist was still alive.

[Forge.]

Sorry, attention economy and all that!

Yeah well the vultures are already talking about what Prince had locked in his vault.

[beats me]

Yeah well the vultures are already talking about what Prince had locked in his vault.

Reason #746 why you can’t make it in music today: Even dead artists are still releasing more new and better tracks than you are.

[Forge.]

the key is defining "make it". what does that actually mean?

[beats me]

It just hit me recently, some 20 years past my prime, that there are people out there making a great living off their original music. Produce music, perform music, recover from hangover. That’s it. Sure maybe they also work on music that isn’t completely theirs but it’s because they want to, not because they need to pay the bills. Not even at the height of my music career delusion did I see this as a possibility. At best I thought I would maybe tour for a couple months but there would still be a day job in the near future.

And no offense intended towards anybody working in music but not in the way described above, but I see a lot of music related careers as a big tub of instability and uncertainty. I’m not a living project to project guy.

[Forge.]

not sure how many of those people there really are in reality relative to the total number doing it.

[Forge.]

... 20 years past my prime, .

but don't be too hard on yourself there, the curse of our generation is that we grew up with the rock star mythology and the fantasy ruined us. At least for previous generations "Warrior" was more attainable. "Rock Star" is not as easy to manufacture. At least warriors only had to know how to kill or maim. Writing music is far more terrifying. You might make a shit tune the kids aren't into.

[H20nly]

Is slightly depressing sometimes though to see how many smart and talented people don't have kids or have any plans to, while other dickheads who rarely have a creative thought might have 12. That's what Idiocracy was all about.

loved the premise of that movie.




since he's not here, i'll submit the Todd Miner response to the question at hand:

Hookers and blow!!

[beats me]

Writing music is far more terrifying. You might make a shit tune the kids aren't into.

Or you could make a great tune kids would be into except nobody is listening because so did 10,000 other home producers and you didn’t tag your track properly.

Or worse. You make a track that is totally formulaic rubbish and you hate yourself for even making it, but that is the only track of yours people are really digging.


I guess a good thing about today’s music environment is you can be faceless. Nobody needs to know who are, what you look like, or your age because you don’t need a major music label and by extension don’t need “the look” and the associated age. No reason you couldn’t run with the young bucks….except you’re burnt out and have a lot lower threshold for bullshit. When you’re young there’s a lot of bullshit that you don’t even realize is bullshit. Hell, you might even be the bullshit. You don’t know that either.

[stringtapper]

And no offense intended towards anybody working in music but not in the way described above, but I see a lot of music related careers as a big tub of instability and uncertainty.

I have lived in both the "band nerd" and the "garage band" worlds since I was 12. The perspective that the "garage band" (and by that I mean pretty much anyone playing music outside the context of formal training) people miss is that there are a lot of ways to make a living with music. That "rockstar mythology" Forge talked about is the pinnacle of ambition in that world; making money writing and performing original music seems to be the lone path in this mentality.

But for people coming up through the "band nerd" side getting paid to play other people's music is the norm and it's not some lofty pie-in-the-sky goal either. It seems to me that the attitude toward this from the "garage band" side is that it's not interesting, uninspiring, not creative enough, "lame", etc. My answer to that is "so is an office job."

My income and career is cobbled together from various activities, but they all involve music or sound in some way and I feel very fortunate about that.

[Forge.]

since he's not here, i'll submit the Todd Miner response to the question at hand:

Hookers and blow!!

Hah! thanks for that little bit of nostalgia. He's on Facebook.

[Forge.]

And no offense intended towards anybody working in music but not in the way described above, but I see a lot of music related careers as a big tub of instability and uncertainty.

I have lived in both the "band nerd" and the "garage band" worlds since I was 12. The perspective that the "garage band" (and by that I mean pretty much anyone playing music outside the context of formal training) people miss is that there are a lot of ways to make a living with music. That "rockstar mythology" Forge talked about is the pinnacle of ambition in that world; making money writing and performing original music seems to be the lone path in this mentality.

But for people coming up through the "band nerd" side getting paid to play other people's music is the norm and it's not some lofty pie-in-the-sky goal either. It seems to me that the attitude toward this from the "garage band" side is that it's not interesting, uninspiring, not creative enough, "lame", etc. My answer to that is "so is an office job."

My income and career is cobbled together from various activities, but they all involve music or sound in some way and I feel very fortunate about that.

many nails hit on heads.

but you also describe the disappointing conclusion I've ended up at. The very act of trying to make music your job turns it into something it shouldn't be. Music is meant to help us escape that bollocks, and the last half century of rockstar mythology etc has commodified music and for me at the moment it's totally ruined it.

[Forge.]

Ed It