OT:Hold all Muslims responsible; London, Bali, Madrid, 911?

[Benshik]

Please guys stop being so sensitive. Anonymouse is bringing an interesting point. I don't see anything scandalous in this...

My 2 cents:
When a religion is used to make politics, it always turns out bad.
Islam is a war religion, even if the moderate islamists condemn Bin Laden and co, they cant really discredit it coz the concept of holy jihad was preached by Mohammed. (btw Jesus, at the opposite, wasn't a warlord and never conqueered anything...)
I know a lot of Muslim people here and thank god most of them don't swallow too hard what's being thought in the Mosqs sometimes... All this Wahabite money begins to corrupt some of Russia's 20 million Muslims who used to be very moderate and liberal. When I see Tatar women putting away their traditional dresses to dress like Saoudi women, I find it shocking. That's Arab imperialism, and it sucks as much as American imperialism. But hey, it's less dangerous and much trendier to shit on America these day so let's keep on bitching Bush and Blair
So yeah, I think that Islam MUST be revised to step in the 21st century... But since war-lord Mohammed wrote the Quran from his own hand (how could he find the time, having to fuck his zillion wifes?), it's gonna be hard to explain the Muslim world that their buddy might have been wrong on some points.

So that's it, some of my Muslim friends, as moderate as they are, condemn terrorist acts, but then they say that America deserved it, jus like lots of Americans seem to think on this forum btw.
So when even the European and American intelligentsia agree that "America deserved it", how in the hell can you expect the simple Muslim guy selling shwarma down the street to tell his cousin not to join Al-Qaeda??????

I hope it didn't shock anyone, jus trowing up ideas in the air, for discussion...

Cheers

Ben

[MrYellow]

If Islam is a war religion then so is Zen Buddhism.

Seeing this kinda stuff really lets me know just how easy it would have
been to feel great about being a member of the nazi party.

-Ben

[Aural Chaos]

There are editorials in major newspapers all around the world saying pretty much the same thing,and evidence that some Muslim leaders are taking this idea to heart,so I dont consider it a particularly inflammatory post (if you actually read it).

[forge]

If Islam is a war religion then so is Zen Buddhism.

Seeing this kinda stuff really lets me know just how easy it would have
been to feel great about being a member of the nazi party.

-Ben

objectively: without knowing anything myself about Islam, My thoughts would be that if any religion requires that you find it necessary to force your self on other human beings then it is detrimental to our survival as a species. Ability to cope with diversity has been our main survival mechanism for thousands of years, so it is imperative that Homo Sapiens Sapiens carries on breaking the mould and doing what some in the past may have considered deviant, because other wise we will stop at about the same evolutionary stage as chimps or whatever - not concerned with evolution, just shagging, watching telly and eating.

Mmmmm Beer.

[forge]

If Islam is a war religion then so is Zen Buddhism.

Seeing this kinda stuff really lets me know just how easy it would have
been to feel great about being a member of the nazi party.

-Ben

objectively: without knowing anything myself about Islam, My thoughts would be that if any religion requires that you find it necessary to force your self on other human beings then it is detrimental to our survival as a species.

Ability to cope with diversity has been our main survival mechanism for thousands of years, so it is imperative that Homo Sapiens Sapiens carries on breaking the mould and doing what some in the past may have considered deviant, because other wise we will stop at about the same evolutionary stage as chimps or whatever - not concerned with
evolution, just shagging, watching telly and eating.

Mmmmm Beer.

wow. Ignore that, just good weed.


All I'm trying to say is, religion should affirm life, not denounce it. The more it is pre-occupied with the bad things, the less helpful it is.

So if Islam really was created by, as a previous poster said 'a warlord' who was a violent nutter, then that is not life affirming behaviour so should not be encouraged. Likewise the whole quote of Jesus "Preach my message to the world." was a fucking stupid thing to say, so i doubt any messiah would have said it. Any intelligent person surely would have realised the implications that would have for stupid people to use it as an excuse to charge about like a moralistic wankers justifying themselves with words from 2000 year old 10 year after the event diaries.

Most of these religions are acting as brake pads, slowing or preventing us from properly evolving into the next stage of our development. Really, as a species we're in late adolescence and pretty soon alot of pubescent bullshit will get out of the way and we'll all start getting on with the age of aquarius.

Fuck me i must be stoned.


Damned Australian weed.

[forge]

the meaning of life is communism.

If everybody on the planet had enough food,water and shelter, the whole vibe of this planet would shift.

Vegetable rights and peace.

Come in Neil, take the tit off yer 'ead

[forge]

PUBLIC APOLOGY:

I do not condone drug use in any way shape or form.

[Hypomixolydian]

If Islam is a war religion then so is Zen Buddhism.

Seeing this kinda stuff really lets me know just how easy it would have
been to feel great about being a member of the nazi party.

-Ben

I was hoping to completely avoid writing on this issue as enough is being said by many others but:
I am afraid Benshik is right. Islam is a "war religion". It is clearly said in the Quoran (you can research it yourself if you don't believe me) that it is the duty of muslims to kill the infidel if they don't convert to islam. It is also ok to lie and cheat to people who are non muslim, but not to a fellow muslim. Now I don't want to incite hatred on muslims, I know many who don't buy into that crap, but facts are facts. The poor uneducated, misinformed are taking that concept literally!!!

[rictheobscene]

I don't think Muslims should be expected to deal with the lunatics that claim to be Muslims. I don't think that the NRA should be responsible for policing gun owner.

However, I think any group has an obligation to cooperate with entities and agencies that are responsible for policing extremists.

Extremists of any sort give the group they claim membership to a bad name. The group should be active in stopping this kind of nonsense to combat any notion that they are complicit in these things.

[AdamJay]

timothy mcveigh was a white christian man who killed 168 people with a bomb.
do we need to put the onus for this crime on white christians?

certainly not.

i think that saying the people involved in a particular religion or creed are responsible for stopping the actions of others of the same religion is EXTREMELY seperatist. It helps to create an us against them mentality that has done nothing good in the last 5 years. It is this same mentality that has started the war in Iraq.

WE need to remember that WE are ALL here TOGETHER.
Seperatism has done nothing good for the world, nothing.

[anonymouse]

+1
trying so hard to keep out of it, but anonymouse, you small-minded asshole,
why don't you become a polititian?
fuck off

Thats a bit below the belt. The guy is simply saying do you think muslims should deal with the problems within their society, i fail to see why this makes him a small minded asshole. Whichever way you look at it, the problem on both sides is a lack of communication .

yeah, i wasn't promoting the idea. Same as suggesting that 20-30 years ago should the Irish Republic/Government have been more active in condemning the IRA and eliminating all cells of support for it in the Irish Republic? Or is the terrorism only a problem to be solved by the English/Ulster Loyalists who were the victims?

Clearly the peace process in the North of Ireland has largely been a success because all ordinary citizens who were Irish/Northern Irish/Loyalist/Republican decided they had had enough and support for terrorism was strangled out of existence because society itself changed and rejected the old hatreds and looked to the future.

Not that the problems in Northern Ireland are completely resolved; nor were Republicans the only terrorists, nor was either the Irish nor UK governments particularly innocent of supporting terrorism themselves.

The only point I was trying to discuss is societies taking active responsibility to squeeze out the extremists. And I raise it as an OT on this forum, cos it is always interesting to get the diversity of views that people have on here.
No offense intended to any muslims here either; I'd guess the vast majority of peaceloving moderate muslims can appreciate that and discuss such issues intelligently.

[Angstrom]

Anonymouse I really like your version of northern Ireland. are you from the future?

[anonymouse]

Anonymouse I really like your version of northern Ireland. are you from the future?

good point Angstrom, I know I am painting far too rosy a picture. Northern Ireland is still a very fragile place. Plus that problem is a poor analogy for this new type of extremist global terrorism that is now emerging. But the murdering of civilians, guerilla tactics and seemingly unsolvable nature of the faceless conflict is the closest example. Particularly for Londoners who remember the fear that the IRA brought to their city not so many years ago.

[Livewire]

Please guys stop being so sensitive. Anonymouse is bringing an interesting point. I don't see anything scandalous in this...

My 2 cents:
When a religion is used to make politics, it always turns out bad.
Islam is a war religion, even if the moderate islamists condemn Bin Laden and co, they cant really discredit it coz the concept of holy jihad was preached by Mohammed. (btw Jesus, at the opposite, wasn't a warlord and never conqueered anything...)
I know a lot of Muslim people here and thank god most of them don't swallow too hard what's being thought in the Mosqs sometimes... All this Wahabite money begins to corrupt some of Russia's 20 million Muslims who used to be very moderate and liberal. When I see Tatar women putting away their traditional dresses to dress like Saoudi women, I find it shocking. That's Arab imperialism, and it sucks as much as American imperialism. But hey, it's less dangerous and much trendier to shit on America these day so let's keep on bitching Bush and Blair
So yeah, I think that Islam MUST be revised to step in the 21st century... But since war-lord Mohammed wrote the Quran from his own hand (how could he find the time, having to fuck his zillion wifes?), it's gonna be hard to explain the Muslim world that their buddy might have been wrong on some points.

So that's it, some of my Muslim friends, as moderate as they are, condemn terrorist acts, but then they say that America deserved it, jus like lots of Americans seem to think on this forum btw.
So when even the European and American intelligentsia agree that "America deserved it", how in the hell can you expect the simple Muslim guy selling shwarma down the street to tell his cousin not to join Al-Qaeda??????

I hope it didn't shock anyone, jus trowing up ideas in the air, for discussion...

Cheers

Ben

i'm a muslim and i'm not gona get all mad but thats a bit harsh man.

with 1.3 billion followers (second largest religion in the world after christianity), if islam was a crazy violent religion then why arent all the muslims killing the non-muslims? cuz after all, thats how our prophet mohammed led us 1400 YEARS AGO. times change, people change, and there is no longer a need for muslims to be violent. it has grown enough and will continue to grow at its own pace.

i'm just a regular guy living in california and i dont support terrorists in any way and i dont hate america. dont stereotype.

like i said before, there are extremists in all cultures.

peace.

[anonymouse]

I was born into Christianity, and until my mid teens I would have classed myself as a Catholic. But, like perhaps a huge number of so called Christians, I really a pretty ignorant about the Bible and religion.

Pointing a finger at Islam and saying it is an aggressive religion seems ridiculous. Not because I know anything about it, but because I do know that the Bible is full of supremacist dogma and bigotry. Most Christians have never really read or studied the Bible, but it is widely accepted that it is a hodge-podge of myth, legend and folklore derived from many sources. The "Jesus" character reflects about 30 different prophets that lived 2 and 3000 years ago. But many of the preachings of the new testament are quite aggressive and elitist.

All in all, I cannot support the Bible as a truly good book. It is too full of contradictions and negativity towards other creeds and cultures.

Mankind's need for religion is a fascinating phenomenon. As civilisation develops further over the next 500 years it will be interesting to see whether the world reaches a greater level of enlightenment, whereby the synthetic religions of today and past centuries are seen as an anachronism. Or whether religion becomes even stronger than it is today.

For me, atheism is the perfect state for the globe. Dressing up statues, singing songs, wearing religious jewellry and believing in such fantasies as The Rapture etc will one day be read about in history books as curiousities of an earlier civilisation.

We have a long way to go as a species before reaching that level of spirituality.