Ableton Audio Effects vs. VST Plugins

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:20 pm

unfortunately, the Ultrafunk plugs were PC only. Also, as of their sale to Cakewalk, they are DirectX only.

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:43 pm

i quite like the Ableton reverb. Its not realistic but has a nice transparent sound. For realistic I go for Waves IR.

EQ - used to be waves but now Sonalksis. Compression - Waves RCL, Nomad Blue Tubes, Blockfish, Sonalksis.

And PSP Mixsaturator/vintagewarmer.

claas · Post by **claas** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:55 pm

I checked a lot of plug-ins the last month and after this I agree: the Ableton effects are really good - only the reverb is not so useful. But I like to use more dynamics and so I use also the Digidesign and some Bombfactory Plug-Ins. Sometimes I like to use special dynamics for vintage sounds. And the Waves Renaissance Bundle is a real good collection.

greetings, claas

wildcon · Post by **wildcon** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:34 pm

I tend to use mainly the Live effects.

My main sequencer is Cubase and unfortunately live won't run the effects and synths, which is a drag.

I use the effects from the NI Komplete bundle (especially Reaktor, which has everything you coud want)

I find it difficult to get standard type effects from the Live stuff. The flanger for instance. I'm finding it difficult to get a nice straight warm flange effect that I can get easily from an external footpedal or my Pod XT.

I also use Guitar Rig plugins which again give good effects (especially distortion).

The reverb is a problem. The Live reverb IMO sucks. I have been using one of the ones with Reaktor (still fairly heavy on the CPU).

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:03 pm

since live5 and device chains I've been using live effects almost exclusively. They're really that good, imo. add Ronin, bufferOverride, LiveCut and some delay/reverbs and I'm pretty happy.

Joost · Post by **Joost** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:22 pm

I like the Live EQ4, compressor 2 and pingpongdelay very much. For cpu efficient reverb i almost always use Silverspike Reverb-it or Audio Damage Deverb

milfbait · Post by **milfbait** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:34 pm

All of the Live plugs I have tried have been really good, I didn't care for the reverb, but most soft reverb doesn't sound that good imho.

I use the delays all the time, the interface is so good, I can usually find the sound I'm looking for very quickly. I use the EQ 4 for low cutting, it's great for that, but when I want something a little smoother on the highs, I now use Poshifopit, which is an amazing free eq.

I must admit I've never really tried the compressors though. I've been using Blockfish and the Buzz compressors.

I tried the saturator, but found it was not subtle enough or smooth enough for mild sweetening. I admit, I only tried the preset "just a little warmer" and it was too extreme.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:15 am

That's cool. Great that such a majority who replied are using mostly the Abelton audio effects. I think I shall do likewise, because I really can't see how the cost of plugins is justified when the Ableton effects, plus a few extras, are basically so good.

Thanks for the replies everyone!

melocoton · Post by **melocoton** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:33 am

Mac users who are unhappy with Live's reverb should check out the AU Matrix Reverb that comes with OS X. It's about 100x better than the ableton verb.

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:22 am

claas wrote:I checked a lot of plug-ins the last month and after this I agree: the Ableton effects are really good - only the reverb is not so useful. But I like to use more dynamics and so I use also the Digidesign and some Bombfactory Plug-Ins. Sometimes I like to use special dynamics for vintage sounds. And the Waves Renaissance Bundle is a real good collection.

greetings, claas

I know everyone bags the Live Reverb.
I agree it isn't the best Send/Return bussed reverb available.
However even in 'economy' mode it is very useful as an insert effect for adding spacial resonance and air to certain samples / impulse and simpler device chains etc etc.
So I would advise people not to overlook it's usefulness in other areas of the production / composing process as it can come in quite handy when used purely as a reverberation based insert effect for experimental ambiences and the like.
Just my two cents worth.
Can sound great patched before a grain delay or post resonator into chorus and delay for example etc etc etc.
Be sure too experiment with the settings and mess with parameter clip automation also of predelay - diffusion - hf rolloff - send level etc etc.

montrealbreaks · Post by **montrealbreaks** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:31 am

I don't understand what everybody hears in the Live Compressors. To me, they're pretty flat. I can't get a good attack on them using drums - either the attack is too fast and I get a flat, undynamic "slappy" drum, or it peaks way too much because the attack is way too slow. There's no "happy medium" for me that chunkifies a drum kit without causing flatness.

Really, if somebody could explain why the Live compressors are so darn good I would love to read it... They don't even limit well. I mean, if I use the PSP vintage warmer as a limiter, I get ABSOLUTELY no hot peaks over the threshold. I always redline it with the Ableton compressors and don't get any of the benefits...

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:08 am

I don't think the compressors are so bad. They are nothing like my hardware compressor though, of course. But I haven't tried the L3 or any of that expensive stuff yet.

One thing I don't understand is that there's NO visual feedback until you really crank down the threshold. You can start with a signal peaking at about -2db going into it and crank the threshold all the way down to -30 db and you're just starting to get a few db of red coming down. Even when you slow the release you don't see the activity any better. I don't think the visuals are accurately showing how much compression is going on. Of course I use my ears, but it seems a little misleading.

Live's effects are all excellent and pretty efficient too. Yes, apple au reverb does sound a little better to my ears. It's requires more time tweaking though.

krank · Post by **krank** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:59 pm

melocoton wrote:Mac users who are unhappy with Live's reverb should check out the AU Matrix Reverb that comes with OS X. It's about 100x better than the ableton verb.

I've spent lots of time trying to tweak this, yet can't get anything natural-sounding. Any advice?

warabunga · Post by **warabunga** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:51 pm

krank wrote:
melocoton wrote:Mac users who are unhappy with Live's reverb should check out the AU Matrix Reverb that comes with OS X. It's about 100x better than the ableton verb.
I've spent lots of time trying to tweak this, yet can't get anything natural-sounding. Any advice?

yes, please!
and I don't see it using less CPU than live's reverb... is it REALLY any good?

melocoton · Post by **melocoton** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:01 am

Regarding the AU Matrix reverb, I like to use the plate or room presets with a very small wet/dry mix. Even down to 1 or 2 %. It probably doesn't use less CPU than Live's reverb but I think it sounds better. It obviously depends on what you're doing with reverb though.