Ableton Forum

Michael-SW wrote:Comparing operator and Reactor is like comparing apples and oranges. One is a synth plug in (of which there are 1000's available, including numerous very good free ones).

The other is a synth/effect building environment. There are only a couple of those around.

Depends on what you want to learn. Basic synthesis? Start with a good free virtual analgue like Synth1. More advanced, modular synthesis? Try KarmaFX, a free very good modular synth.

best advice yet IMO.

I wouldnt recommend buying Operator or Reaktor if your just starting to learn about synthesis. Operator is FM and Reaktor is just bonkers. Stick with traditional subtractive synthesis for now and move on later if you feel the need.

I will buck the trend and say that you should definitely get Reaktor, because you can do so much more with it. Yes, it's far more expensive. And yes, your CPU will weep. But Live makes it easy to get around that (just record the audio from the reaktor track). And while I love operator, I wouldn't think for a moment about giving up operator if the other option were giving up all the Reaktor synths, FX, groove boxes, sample players, etc.

dj superflat wrote:I will buck the trend and say that you should definitely get Reaktor, because you can do so much more with it. Yes, it's far more expensive. And yes, your CPU will weep.

Many reaktor patches are every bit as efficient as most other plugins. Sure, you load a big f***-off synth and you're going to take a hit, but there's a definite sub-trend to do cut-down stuff with nice UIs as well. Also, as you get into modding ensembles you can strip out un-wanted features, making it even more lean

(btw, this is Reaktor 5 I'm talking about.. afaik 4 was more of a hog.)

No brainer - get Reaktor - for the price you pay you get at least $1000 in synths, drum machines and effects if not more (!)

Operator is not the best synth - it is what it is

At one point I thought it was the bomb but as people have said before there are plenty of Plug-In synths out there and not all of them cost over $100 that blow up hard if not harder than Operator

Right now Albino and The Oddity are blowing up super hard - Granted Albino costs a bit much but wow!

But if you absolutely have to have Operator no one is going to talk you out of it

However you're better off (especially since you got a PC with enough juice) to get Reaktor

I got Reaktor 5 for $238 - I paid $99 for 4 on Ebay then upgraded to 5 for $139 that's $89 more dollars than I paid for Operator ($149) and it's 110% better (IMO) and I have hundreds of quality synths, effects, drum machines etc to use - Hello (DUH!)

peace in the middle east

Adonis!

djadonis206 wrote:I got Reaktor 5 for $238 - I paid $99 for 4 on Ebay then upgraded to 5 for $139 that's $89 more dollars than I paid for Operator ($149)

woah. that's a good deal on reaktor, bro! Reaktor is 399€ on their website, and Operator is 109€ right now. But yeah, it is apples and oranges - Operator isn't a bread-n-butter synth machine, and isn't a 2100-in-1 box like reaktor, but OTOH it *is* the best darned FM synth I've ever heard or worked with.
I can't stand Albino, for what it's worth - it does have some kind of saturation going on iirc, I really liked that, and the presets were alright (typical chorus-reverb-delay drenched variety), but other than that it's been done a million times over, imo.

I'm actually rather proud of the deal I worked on Reaktor - the bidding started @ $99.00 - I looked into it to see if it was a crack or a copy of some disc etc

Nah - the real deal from some store in New Mexico

i was the ONLY bidder - $99! Viola...i wanted to tell the world but realised the world doesn't care

yeah I came up!

Yeah, when I bought Albino I was a tad bit disappointed (and basically didn't open it for a month or two) but I'm not sure what happened or why but it's cracking right now - I put the chord plug-in on there and go for the classic house chord - things are coming out nicely

I'm pluggin the Oddity again - that thing is low down, sick, dirty and just plain wrong sounding - I Love IT!



later


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I like operator. It is pobably not the greatest synth in the world. If you want to learn about synthesis, it is an enjoyable way to go about it- assuming you are a llive enthusiast, and you are interested n how different elements of it can be manipulated by the particular live interface. It costs money, but the free tutorials and excellent support is pretty hard to beat.

Those articles you posted are hot. I remmember the first link was posted some time ago, and I should have it somewhere. With these links and a handful of decent free-synths (especially now that I recognize you are on a mac,) you could easilly get away without Operator or Reaktor 5.

If you got a good deal on Reaktor 5 I would suggest you go for it and sell it if it is too overwhelming. Or just sell it for a profit right away, anyway. It seems like a good scam, and the profits could easilly cover the cost of the book I suggested, though, enough links like the one's you posted could easilly cover the stuff you want to be learning now.

The way I see it is this:
I really like the artura Moog synths. SO much that I spent way too much time trying to emulate the trial version with free synths. Then, while searching for free synths I got compulsive about colllecting all of these different, amazing free things, that I started to want all of their costly counterparts. Now, if I had just been sitting around that whole time learning max, rather than playing with infinite free synths and their current limitations as imposed by the latest technology, I could have been developing real skills that could ultimately exploit future technology on an entirely different level.

I think it's a subjective choice. I am sure that a hundred years from, when I can actually use max effectively, processors will be so fast that I will be struggling to keep up with people that are really rocking out on their own reaktor makes.

And, I can only tell you to start simple, not quite do it myself. I am almost embarassed by how much money I spent in my two years since I moved into the digital realm. Though the exposure to so many variables was extraordinary, I sometimes wish I all that time with the "great features" of Logic pro 7 in max/msp instead. I have no regrets about Live.

A lot of people are saying that reaktor is overwhelming, and I agree, but it doesn't have to be. If you start by using some ensembles like the junatik, or other simple emulations of hardware analog synths, it's all the same. There are some amazing sounding Juno/arp/roland type emulations in the user library that sound fatter than any other soft synth you'll find on the market, and many of these actually use the same or less cpu than operator.

If an ensemble looks too scary, just don't use it.
I think that if you got yourself some general synthesis tutorials, and used some basic reaktor synths, that would be as easy as anything. Some of the older R3/R4 synths are very straight forward. You never have to look at the structure underneath (I don't). And also, if later you want some fm synths like operator, there are great ones in the user library as well.

So even though earlier I said it depends on what you're after, having thought about it, I say get Reaktor. The folks at the forum there are very helpful too.

cheers,
grb

For educational purposes, you cant beat the operator.
It offers an easy-to-understand approach to FM and subtractive synthesis.

Reaktor has a bit of a learning curve. You'll end up playing with the thousands of presets, instead of learning how to make your own.

ABL Pro will probably be a good synth to learn to work with modular synths.
http://www.audiorealism.se/abl_pro_cookin.htm
It'll still take a week or so till it's available though.
I can tell you now, that the basslines from this baby will knock your socks of.
Ask Santa for ABL Pro

Wow, I am interested inhearing this, bt who the hell is Bjorn Veyner!?

LOFA wrote:who the hell is Bjorn Veyner!?

hehe, I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya - by the way, I can second the fact that the ABL does indeed sound AMAZING! Really cool bit of kit, and it has to be the coolest looking vsti ever produced

There's a third competitor now, Octopus:

http://www.linplug.com/Products/Octopus/octopus.htm


--Kent

that sound on sound series is great. years of related articles in detail about sound and synthesis. thanks a lot.

damn this is an old ass thread, didn't even look .........