bidule vs. max/msp vs. reaktor vs ?

tomperson · Post by **tomperson** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:03 am

Thanks for sharing, computo, I know you are a die hard MAX fan.

I understand what you say in terms that you can do anything, that's why I asked for some specific applications to better direct my own research, it's always good to know what has been previously done, you know, standing on the shoulders of giants (or something like that, i'm not native english speaker

).

Your first example was midi real time modification/generation. The path would be external controller->max->live, right? How do you achieve that routing on Windows PC? I guess in mac virtual midi connections are like built in...

And when it comes to audio, what do you do? Do you create instruments and then play with them? How do you integrate the audio stuff with live? (I mean, is it rewire compatible or such? how does the audio stream goes in/out max<->live?).

What other applications are you finding max good for? What crazy ideas have you had with it (like the evil tempos you mentioned, sounds mad!).

And how do you compare max with bidule? have you used bidule?

clipperer · Post by **clipperer** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:56 am

thanx for reply computo.. just watched max/msp artists videos.. ..... pretty amazing... pretty cool .
ill try to dive in it..
im interested in sound processings.. d'like to create synthesisers and real time effects.. throw em in live, control..... and such.....

and.. i just thought .well. i think its better to start with max/msp than reaktor or synth maker ..cause who knows where id like to go next..unlimitness is what i want

computo · Post by **computo** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:53 am

One of the great things about max, is that the patches are cross-platform, so most of the setups one creates with one, can be used on the other.

But Audio is a bit trickier...

Cycling74 has a great app called Soundflower, which allows you to route audio directly through virtual ports. Its only Mac, though.

But Max CAN be recycled...just read up on the process...

for Midi routing, you can use midiyoke on PC, which is free, I think...you can route midi from program to program...

and, for video, Jitter is the shit. I have been writing my own video patches for months, no years now. and there is no better way to get original, unique visuals, that you can Force to interact with whatever you are doing live. Nothing cooler than being able to create an entire multimedia performance on your own. And you can go from super simple, to super complex, depending on your experience, and willingness to experiment.

WOOHOOO!!!

Any other questions? Feel free.

leonard · Post by **leonard** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:12 am

Hi computo,
does max allow you to re-route the signal chain in real time?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:38 am

leonard wrote:Hi computo,
does max allow you to re-route the signal chain in real time?

yes - as does:
energyXT (39euros and AMAZING! does a whole lotta crap, and is super easy)
Plogue Bidule (Also amazing, but not as much)
and Reaktor (ahem, *slightly* more expensive than the two previous, cheaper than Max/msp, easier (imo) and so on - 2131 items in the user library.

-they're all good, so look into them all before spending big.

tomperson · Post by **tomperson** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:25 pm

i checked energy xt page, don't get exactly what it does, it seems just like a sequencer?

clipperer · Post by **clipperer** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:27 pm

clipperer wrote:thanx for reply computo.. just watched max/msp artists videos.. ..... pretty amazing... pretty cool .
ill try to dive in it..
im interested in sound processings.. d'like to create synthesisers and real time effects.. throw em in live, control..... and such.....

and.. i just thought .well. i think its better to start with max/msp than reaktor or synth maker ..cause who knows where id like to go next..unlimitness is what i want

now i think each of those programs are better in its own way. like synthmaker max/msp reaktor tassman and others... or is afterall max/msp over them all, better than reaktor ?
..different tasks for different programs, for different creatures....
max/msp interface looks kinda colourless.. if id know how to change it.. reaktors interface i like more..still dont know where to start..
damn those self doubts

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:50 pm

tomperson wrote:i checked energy xt page, don't get exactly what it does, it seems just like a sequencer?

sequencer, signal processor, modular vst host, automation master, evil-doer.
Works bloody well with the renowned midi vst plugins that never work in Live.

computo · Post by **computo** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:49 pm

clipperer wrote:
clipperer wrote:thanx for reply computo.. just watched max/msp artists videos.. ..... pretty amazing... pretty cool .
ill try to dive in it..
im interested in sound processings.. d'like to create synthesisers and real time effects.. throw em in live, control..... and such.....

and.. i just thought .well. i think its better to start with max/msp than reaktor or synth maker ..cause who knows where id like to go next..unlimitness is what i want
now i think each of those programs are better in its own way. like synthmaker max/msp reaktor tassman and others... or is afterall max/msp over them all, better than reaktor ?
..different tasks for different programs, for different creatures....
max/msp interface looks kinda colourless.. if id know how to change it.. reaktors interface i like more..still dont know where to start..
damn those self doubts

Well, each is unique, though their features all overlap in certain ways.

to change your patch color in Max, create a new object, and write
"bgcolor $1 $2 $3"
where the $'s equal values between 0-255. this will give you a RGB color for the bg of your patch. Everything is color customizable, text, you name it...you can change ANYTHING, to give the desired appearance.

stratusseeker · Post by **stratusseeker** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:45 pm

it's just so HARD to learn max. (for me)

I think cycling could get more max converts if they bundled more pre-made programs with it like reaktor has.

They could commission Autechre to write 25 programs for us to play with or something.

maybe that's not the goal, however. I could understand that.

clipperer · Post by **clipperer** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:50 pm

tyson wrote:it's just so HARD to learn max. (for me)

I think cycling could get more max converts if they bundled more pre-made programs with it like reaktor has.

They could commission Autechre to write 25 programs for us to play with or something.

maybe that's not the goal, however. I could understand that.

yeah.. examples like.. would be cool to look in.
how do you know that autechre makes with max/msp ?

stratusseeker · Post by **stratusseeker** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:03 pm

I have seen pictures of Autechre's max patches on the internet. They also talk about max in interviews a lot. Right now they seem to be only using hardware, but for a while seemed to be using mostly max/msp.

Hervé · Post by **Hervé** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:06 pm

Check this

http://www.littledetroit.net/forums/vie ... php?t=2453

stratusseeker · Post by **stratusseeker** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:54 pm

I think I have a larger version of that those pics if you want to see them. I was just looking for them when the last post went up. I don't know how to post a picture in this message though.

clipperer · Post by **clipperer** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:34 pm

hey tyson, all you need to do is to click img than paste a link and click img again and pic should be visible in the forum