Ableton Forum

how do you avoid naive melodies?

I will now attempt to transcribe the hidden melody in your subject line:

"Too-Du-Du doo-doo too-Du doo-doo-Du?"

Well, that melody is a bit crude + perhaps even naive, but you get the idea.

Some random thoughts...

1. A "good" melody often depends on a highly expressive complimentary timbre for it to work right. Many melodies you might like would probably sound naive or cheesy if played on some boring synth preset. The sound of the instrument has to suck you into the melody so that you really feel the melody.

2. Good melodies are all about tension and release. Sometimes it helps to put an "off" note in the melody if you can make it turn out alright. It gives it that twist of reality that counterbalances the naivete...

3. A famous musicologist did a study of hundreds of years of melodies and found some important patterns. Nearly all melodies follow a progression from V -> I or I -> V -> I. So if you map out the most important notes of a melody you will usually find a very simple progression from the 5th note of the scale to the 1st note = V -> I.

I'm gonna go write some melodies now...

Maybe you could post a midi file of the melody in question and we could tweak it?

no idea is new idea the secret is to copy from different artists's so this is healthy, not so healthy if we copy from 1 artist. listen to any things and sue the same things will be in other songs. so every famous artist is natural song writinngs? no no boy they copy.

copy this---- -- --- --

Lets make this a bit simpler... take a look at Billboard's Top 10 songs and you'll see how "naive" a melody can be! It doesn't matter. If people can sing along to it or dance to it, it will sell millions!

Don't worry if a melody is naive or not, just keep working your craft and it will get there...

... and come on, I mean, I like the Black Eyed Peas and all but, "My Humps"?!? Have you heard THAT melody?!!!

that song is .... its so bad.... who buys that shit ? children with too much money , or dizzy girls with too little brains

I think it helps to learn some music theory to counter this. When you know the "language", you can begin to learn and recognize certain rules which can get you out of tough spots.

Here's a link to an excellent music theory guide for beginners, and there's even a whole section on how to overcome this EXACT problem you describe. This is a must read for e-musicians IMO, excellent easy to understand writings, with modern musical examples:

http://www.ravenspiral.com/ravenspiralguide.pdf

What kind of music do you listen to most often? That might be a pointer. Try listening to stuff you have never heard and study it. Once you have an appreciation for new music I think you will start thinking differently when you try to compose. Listen to some classical. One song will have many melodies. Try playing the main idea of one of the melodies, don't try to play it exactly. Different instruments often inspire me differently. I pick up my guitar when I'm stuck on the synth.

Tarekith wrote: Here's a link to an excellent music theory guide for beginners

great link

try messing around with the timing of the notes or moving it relative to the down beat.

often the difference berween a great mellody and naive sounding one is in the rhythm.

Naive melodies?

have you ever heard Mozart?

the most citchy, nauseating melodies are often the most popular.

Sad but true.

But there's also often a big difference between what's "popular" and what the musician can actually stomach

well, whether you can stomach it, whether you want to attach your name to it...

there are a lot of considerations to make.

hehe, true.

I don't know what the word Naive even means - here I'll look it up:

(n-f, nä)
adj.
1) Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.

2) Unsuspecting or credulous: “Students, often bright but naive, betand losesubstantial sums of money on sporting events” (Tim Layden).

3) Showing or characterized by a lack of sophistication and critical judgment: “this extravagance of metaphors, with its naive bombast” (H.L. Mencken).

Not previously subjected to experiments: testing naive mice.
Not having previously taken or received a particular drug: persons naive to marijuana.

n.
One who is artless, credulous, or uncritical.


There's alot to play with there - you never know, that melody might be the hit and you would never know it

try cutting the melody in half instead of a bar have it repeat twice and put a low pass filter over it with a saw tooth (up) LFO synced to the 1/4 beat

put a hi pass eq after the low pass thing - open and close both

drop a arp before you're synth and set it to the 16th - assign a controller to the percentage thing so the arp opens and closes

now we've taken garbage and made fine wine - seriously - fuck that shit up

you never know - then on a break open it all the way

I have no clue of what I'm talking about again, I'm just bored at work

later


DJA!

Talking Heads - "This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody)"

Now there's a "naive melody" I would not want to avoid