Ableton Forum

aex1 wrote:.... the problem are the non ableton plug ins. if you get an intel mac you just have to wait until all of them are available as universal binaries as well.

indeed,

I'm not sure that everyone has realised that every single one of their plugins needs re-writing to prevent the host switching to Rosetta "performance death" mode.

A lot of plug-ins are written by 1 & 2 man bands with a reliance on platform based knowledge to get speed / performance. These guys cant really afford to make re-writes and give them out free. Alot of them are really feeling the pain on the SSE learning curve right now.

You will probably need to buy all your plugin updates for macintel and they will take a while to get coded anyway. So if you use plugins from smaller companies, don't rush into buying a macintel

mg75 wrote:tested the demo today.
iMac 20" intel 512mb ram
launched fine.
while playing the demo there were audio dropouts.
system performance was at 160% or more.

In this thread someone says the opposite: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32302

hoffman2k wrote:I wouldn't expect a universal binary before march 2006.
How can the abes test it, if none of those macs are shipping yet?
Blind faith? we all know where that got us......

They already have a developer kit from last summer. I'm sure they have been working on it, it is just a matter of time. There is no way they will wait a whole year. That's like waiting for an update when windows releases Vista for a year. Won't happen. It's like shooting your foot buisiness-wise.

studio615 wrote:

hoffman2k wrote:I wouldn't expect a universal binary before march 2006.
How can the abes test it, if none of those macs are shipping yet?
Blind faith? we all know where that got us......

They already have a developer kit from last summer. I'm sure they have been working on it, it is just a matter of time. There is no way they will wait a whole year. That's like waiting for an update when windows releases Vista for a year. Won't happen. It's like shooting your foot buisiness-wise.

Somehow i doubt that Ableton could have gotten their hands on a dev kit. Figuring it's something that went out to priviliged members only. (Although i noticed a g5 in Ableton HQ, i think it was just a g5. You never know though)
Maybe they were able to test it on another dev kit that is bound to be found somewhere in Berlin.
But my guess is, that they wont see one of those intel macs sooner then you or me.

NAMM shall bring some answers i hope.....
Don't rush the abes into something. Let em do it properly

ocp wrote:

mg75 wrote:tested the demo today.
iMac 20" intel 512mb ram
launched fine.
while playing the demo there were audio dropouts.
system performance was at 160% or more.

In this thread someone says the opposite: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32302

The Live 5.03 Demo was downloaded and tested on an actual 20" Intel iMac at an Apple Store. Overall the machine was super-fast and responsive with iLife etc...
Live's graphical interface was flawless and worked perfect. Sound on the other hand was choppy and kept dropping out. Performance meter was at 140-160%. This was a stock iMac with only 512MB RAM.

LOFA wrote:

forgie wrote: On the upside we may all have to wait for Rev B of the intel macs, which would probably mean faster CPUs for the same price, not to mention... ahem... FW800 Apple?

These are the very details I am hung up on. It sucks tho', 'cause I feel like I have been waitig two years for a competitive mac-top. Oh yeah. I have.

This could not sum up my thoughts any better. I have been waiting FOREVER for a Mac (laptop or desktop) that was worth the money. I was so excited when I saw they stuck intels in the powerbook and iMac, instead of starting with iBooks and mac minis. That excitement lasted for about a day, until I saw they removed some features from the powerbook (did the thing really need to be any thinner? at the expense of FW800?) and it sunk in that universal binaries of Live AND my plugins are months away. No point in buying a MAC right now until there is anything to run on it.

Another thing that will piss me off is if Logic miraculously gets released as a universal binary early, probably the day the intel towers are announced. I know Apple made intel machines available to developers, but the big advantage Apple has is it knows exactly when all the intel machines will be released, price points, etc (i.e., when the user base will actually transition). There is something anticompetitive about that. Can't fault Ableton for not allocating its limited programming resources to getting a universal binary ready by today so the one person with an intel mac can run live. The moving target that is OS X is kind of ridiculous. Developer tweaks an app to get it to run on 10.x.9, then Apple releases 10.y.1, which breaks all software (except Logic is updated that same day to keep working). It's crap I say. Crap!

OK I'm done venting. It's just another frustrating Apple transition. At least maybe this time it will lead to affordable machines that perform.

Arrgghhh!

Dave

I would imagine this would be something they might want to announce at a big event - lets hope there is a big music expo coming soon somewhere

hoffman2k wrote:I wouldn't expect a universal binary before march 2006.
How can the abes test it, if none of those macs are shipping yet?
Blind faith? we all know where that got us......

The Intel iMacs are shipping now. People will be receiving them next week.

hoffman2k wrote: Somehow i doubt that Ableton could have gotten their hands on a dev kit. Figuring it's something that went out to priviliged members only. (Although i noticed a g5 in Ableton HQ, i think it was just a g5. You never know though)

Not at all. Any Premier/Select ADC members could get them. Pay $500 for membership and $999 for the machine and you could have had one too. Well, till you had to hand it back of course...

~Pev

Flowbee wrote:

hoffman2k wrote:I wouldn't expect a universal binary before march 2006.
How can the abes test it, if none of those macs are shipping yet?
Blind faith? we all know where that got us......

The Intel iMacs are shipping now. People will be receiving them next week.

If all goes well

It'll take Ableton as long as they need. I expect we'll get some answers when NAMM comes, because then everybody that lives near annaheim can ask them.
See how much info you get out of them.
Getting them drunk doesn't work They operate in shifts.

Try to corner Shawn Balm and give him some sodium thiopental
He's the kind of guy who would abuse a passed out stranger....

(no strangers were harmed during the testing of this theory, the passed out dude was in fact a Danish fella we all know and love. But Shawn didn't realise that )

He'll look familiar. He's the dude in the middle of "the last supper"

pev wrote:

hoffman2k wrote: Somehow i doubt that Ableton could have gotten their hands on a dev kit. Figuring it's something that went out to priviliged members only. (Although i noticed a g5 in Ableton HQ, i think it was just a g5. You never know though)

Not at all. Any Premier/Select ADC members could get them. Pay $500 for membership and $999 for the machine and you could have had one too. Well, till you had to hand it back of course...

~Pev

Ah. so you can buy your gold membership? Which means anybody could actually have had an intel kit for 1500$ ?
But the way i understood it, was that company's like adobe were the gold members.

dave999z wrote:

LOFA wrote:Another thing that will piss me off is if Logic miraculously gets released as a universal binary early, probably the day the intel towers are announced. I know Apple made intel machines available to developers, but the big advantage Apple has is it knows exactly when all the intel machines will be released, price points, etc (i.e., when the user base will actually transition). There is something anticompetitive about that. Can't fault Ableton for not allocating its limited programming resources to getting a universal binary ready by today so the one person with an intel mac can run live. The moving target that is OS X is kind of ridiculous. Developer tweaks an app to get it to run on 10.x.9, then Apple releases 10.y.1, which breaks all software (except Logic is updated that same day to keep working). It's crap I say. Crap!

OK I'm done venting. It's just another frustrating Apple transition. At least maybe this time it will lead to affordable machines that perform.

Arrgghhh!

Dave

All devs had the opportunity to buy (or rent really) an Intel dev kit for $999 last year. They've been asked to send those dev kits back now but supposedly receive a free Intel Mac as a replacement. I'm sure the Abes have one (or had).

Universal Binary Logic (along with the rest of the Apple pro apps) is being released by the end of March. Apple as a software company HAS to have their software ready pretty quick for any new hardware they may be releasing. It only makes sense for them as a company. It's not anticompetitive. Their just putting their resources there to keep the 'unified' Apple experience going.

I don't think its an issue of Logic miraculously being released on the same day as the towers, etc because they have secret knowledge that Ableton doesn't. Apple actually made some specific hints to devs about getting their binaries done. I remember seeing one at the beginning of December that sorta went...

"Have your Universal Binaries ready NOW!!!"

If that's not a hint that the new macs might be coming sooner than later, I don't know what is.

Also remember that all these developers have different priorities when it comes to their own internal schedules and upcoming updates. Ableton has to now code for 3 platforms - Windows, OSX PPC, and OSX Intel. Not to say that the Intel Binary is not important for them (I'm sure it is) but they only have so many programmers, and they also have to keep up normal development of Live (fixing bugs, listening to suggestions from users, etc.). I don't think Logic has any more of an advantage other than their not programming for Windows, so they have only OSX to worry about all day. Logic 7 was released in Sept of 2004, and 7.1 sometime last year? It seems that they're spending a lot of time working on things maybe we can't see yet - Universal Binaries? Maybe more under the hood... Where Ableton has had steady releases where you can see a very clear track of development.

Again, it's all about each individual developers' internal timetable. I'm not a developer myself, but I like to frequent the Apple developer forums, and watch their developer keynotes. Apple and OSX is definitely a moving target, which sucks on one hand, but ultimately some very cool things come out of it.

There should definitely be a lot of answers at NAMM.

And then there's this: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Actually the most annoying thing about all this is that the old imacs have not and will not drop in price because of the situation. If we could pick up a used G5 imac for like 600 bucks then fine..I would get one and wait 6-8 months to see what happens but they are still 900+ for a refurb.

That plugin issue is HUGE if they dont work with the new Macs! I am NOT buying all new plugins anytime soon...

Screw it, looks like I am back at square one with getting an old model G5 imac and waiting who knows how long for all this crap to get ironed out.

Another thing that will piss me off is if Logic miraculously gets released as a universal binary early, probably the day the intel towers are announced. I know Apple made intel machines available to developers, but the big advantage Apple has is it knows exactly when all the intel machines will be released, price points, etc (i.e., when the user base will actually transition). There is something anticompetitive about that.

Oh, come on. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple already has Logic working on the intel chips. Presumably they use Xcode and just need to recompile right? So they're actually doing the other pro app developers a favor by holding off a bit on the desktop machines and the pro apps. I mean, if they already had OS X running on intel chips for the past 5 years then I'm sure they could have FCP, Motion, Shake, etc. all ready to go as well. At it seems to me that all of the announcements and leaked rumors and everything have been pretty straightforward and predictable. If developers can't figure out what's going on and get their act together in time that's hardly Apple's fault.