FIX YOUR SHIT ABLETON! Totally FED UP!!

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wilxon
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Post by wilxon » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:07 pm

mdb wrote:Been using this program for some time dude.. I know all the ins and outs of it for the most part. I use it has a basic multitrack recorder for sequence and live vocals. Just laying tracks like anyone else would. Just using verb and delat and compression like anyone else would. Pretty much doing basic shit with it.

it is quite clear here that mdb doesnt want help from anyone, he only wants ableton to agree with what he is saying, and i dont think that they are going to do that.

Alex
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Post by Alex » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:03 pm

Hi folks,

mdb has taken some time to write his message at the top of this page, in a very uset mannor, but tells you nothing about what he is using in his mixes.

People like myself who just want to try and help can only make suggetions.
I second that.
Without a description about what exactly you do on which setup, without the information if it can be reproduced we have less chances to understand what happens or to make it better.

Every bug report is welcome and needed but we need to understand it.

regards,
/Alex

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:21 pm

I admire your tact and restraint, Alex! The original poster has the people skills of a neanderthal.

IMO, juvenile temper tantrums don't accomplish anything, especially when seeking help. FWIW, Live works flawlessly for me, as it does for many others (apart from the new menu greying out bug... :evil:)

xl5
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Post by xl5 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:41 pm

supster wrote:

i think it needs to be pointed out again:

the people that are not experiencing the bad performance issues are very quick immediately defend ableton and throw the ball back at the people who are either trying to get them fixed or giving up in total frustration

its a matter of selective perception, because you are happy that its all working within reasonable expectations so you assume everybody who is not getting good results must be doing something wrong.

this is not always the case, if you were having any of these showstopping, very common problems you suddenly be a lot more aware of the sheer amount of people reporting the same or similar symptoms acrost all sorts of hardware/software setups

its a lot of people, reporting very bad problems. and if the solutions were obvious, answers would have been given out or ableton would have fixed them by now
.
You are absolutly correct on everything you said.
I find it very funny when people comes to a electronic music/audio pro for more than 15 years to tell him : Maybe Live isn't the problem!

I too paid for Live 5 which turned out to be a mere beta app. And it's been the case for what? 6 months now ?. It is more unstable than other DAW I used for years and it's far less cpu effecient than other DAW as well. And it's LOADED with bugs. They fix one bug and two new ones appear. I personally would have prefered sticking with Live 4 for an additional year to a working version of 5 released.
Come on, I first bought version 4 because I thought it was the most efficient and fastest way to write down and gather song ideas. And it is (I mean was). Now I just waste time trying to get it to work and coming up with workarounds. something I don't have to do with any of the other software i use.

With every new release of 5.x , hope comes back but every single time I have to sadly go back to 4.

Now stay tune for the official reply from the ass kisser community hooligans. We will all learn how we ungratefull bastards don't know a thing about those big complicated computers and applications and how incredible the guys at Abelton are and how hardworking and generous they are and how it's so much worst everywherelse. I'm glad you guys are happy with it. Stay happy. But don't come here to tell me i should be happy and shut up. Just don't.

The truth is i use to just LOVE Live, I had nothing against Ableton otherwise I wouldn't have bought 5 if I had been dissapointed with version 4. Selling us a beta was not a good idea or buisiness move. Because what I received in exange of my paiement for Live 5 is an underperforming and ustable load of bugs. That's it.

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:43 pm

Yesterday my collaborater and I used his 1.5g 15" laptop with a fire box, running 1 sm57 ans a studioprojects B1 condenser mic. We recorded for about 4 hours with multipple device chains. Not a single pop or click. I was blown away, and had a great time.

Now if only I could get this kind of performance with my gear? All I get is pops and clicks!? Always have! I just don't understand.

This all makes me feel like taking the heat away from the abes, but it doesn't solve my problem. At least my ableton hoodie finally made it to my moms doorstop. :D I have already waited over a month, so a few more days will be nothing!

Alex
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Post by Alex » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:50 pm

Hi xl5,
And it's LOADED with bugs. They fix one bug and two new ones appear
If it is loaded with bugs please get sure you have reported them to us.
From your postings I only know the "disabled menu bug" and that you wished multi-processor support.

regards,
/Alex

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:00 pm

Live5 certainly uses more CPU than 4, but i think that is to be expected.


however, i have honestly never had a problem with bugs. Seriously. I fire it up every day except sunday (sunday is poker day) and it hasn't crashed in months and months. Works great for me, no pops or clicks, (except for garble when CPU is exceeded, but that is expected!) no hang times in arrange, none of it.


what's up with that???


Why do some people have 'em and some don't?


And why is it that some people who loudly complain don't have any specific complaints?


WTF?



.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:42 pm

Alex wrote:Hi xl5,
And it's LOADED with bugs. They fix one bug and two new ones appear
If it is loaded with bugs please get sure you have reported them to us.
From your postings I only know the "disabled menu bug" and that you wished multi-processor support.

regards,
/Alex
What is this disabled menu bug? I am curious if it is the same thing I occaionally experience where I lose my ability to use some of the commands (ie: cut, paste, etc.)

Demanding multiprocessor support from ableton is like telling your fiancee to get breast implants-even though you love her just the way she is. It could potentially destroy their stability if they try to match there coding with every newfangled, intermermitant multicore technology, multiprocessor setup. Love it the way it is.

I could understand if you were using live purely as a DAW, why you would want to jeopardize the signature stability of this program as instrument, and have them rush to support every tom dick and harry technology on the planet.

I can't wait for 6. Perhaps then I will have a computer that is faster and dedicated only to live, as well as an RME or presonus interface. Till then I will leave the complaints to gents like Supster that are established professionals, run a tight ship, and still can't get things to run the way they are supposed to. IMO, all y'all uproarious neanderthals got to chill out.

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:45 pm

LOFA wrote:
Alex wrote:Hi xl5,
And it's LOADED with bugs. They fix one bug and two new ones appear
If it is loaded with bugs please get sure you have reported them to us.
From your postings I only know the "disabled menu bug" and that you wished multi-processor support.

regards,
/Alex
What is this disabled menu bug? I am curious if it is the same thing I occaionally experience where I lose my ability to use some of the commands (ie: cut, paste, etc.)
export midi file....
menu is disabled...

Shit happens :wink:

hambone1
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Post by hambone1 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:29 pm

Sometimes a bug can speed things up...:?

I was getting the greyed-out menus not when exporting a MIDI clip, but when copying an audio clip from session view into arrangement view. It was pissing me off having to open and close preferences to clear it.

So I tried dragging the clip across. No greyed-out menu, and a faster workflow!

Most dark clouds do have a silver lining, if you look hard enough. But whining without constructive substance just wastes everyone's time.

xl5
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Post by xl5 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:25 pm

hambone1 wrote:Sometimes a bug can speed things up...:?

I was getting the greyed-out menus not when exporting a MIDI clip, but when copying an audio clip from session view into arrangement view. It was pissing me off having to open and close preferences to clear it.

So I tried dragging the clip across. No greyed-out menu, and a faster workflow!

Most dark clouds do have a silver lining, if you look hard enough. But whining without constructive substance just wastes everyone's time.
A bug can speed things up ? And you're not even joking.

A bug is a bug and your new found way is not a new found solution since its well documented in the manual and I've always draged clips to the Arrangement.

Forget it then.
Please let's all write to Ableton and ask them to PLEASE STOP trying to fix bugs.
IT'S ALL OUR FAULTS, there are no bugs. If we work hard and long enough we will eventually find a work around for all those bugs. So please don't bother. When your at it don't even bother writting a new manual for version 6. Ship us the beta right now. Will find a work around every bug we find and THEN you can wirte the manual with our new found ways! How's that.
All problem solved.

You know what? All jokes aside, if it was printed on the box that Live 5 is not a music/audio application but some sort of puzzle to solve THEN i would spend all my working hours (paid by the clients) and the rest of my free time as well working HARD ENOUGH with a smile on my face and with pink tainted glasses on trying to solve all problems by myself. Just like you do. Unfortunatly it says : Real Time Music Production.

Now, I understand that this forum community serves us well and I am gratefull for that. A large community like this one is very resourceful. But while it is true that it is more helpful to find a viable solution to our problem than sit around and whine, I also feel that Ableton deserve to be told the truth about this piece of software and a lot of us ARE NOT happy, not at all.

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:40 pm

so xl5, specifically what bugs are you talking about?


.lm.
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supster
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Post by supster » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:49 pm

hambone1 wrote:Most dark clouds do have a silver lining, if you look hard enough.
well, then help me find the silver lining in these:

1 - very badly underperforming arrangeview at low resource usage. leads to lockups, "white screen of death" and occasional crashes.

2 - session view duplicating scenes parallels the arrange view problem. copy and paste parallels the arrange view slowdowns, although not quite to the same degree

3 - Live clips function efffectively useless, as its performance parallels the arrange view problem. as the lockups and waits increase on arrangeview, almost any Live clip task can lock up Live from anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 / 3 minutes - just like clips in the arrange view

4 - underperforming VSTs in comparison to other hosts, have never been able to simulataneously run more than 2 or 3 maximum (various combos of
atmosphere, trilogy, reaktor, guru, microtonic, z3ta, minimonsta, pro-53, absynth 3) and usually can only run 1 at most (probably a rompler like atmosphere)

5 - audio glitching issue, documented elsewhere. although im lucky, i only experience this under certain conditions, and because i have given up on using live as an arrangement app i dont get them anymore

6 - CTRL-SHFT-I duplicate scenes shorcut, does not work. started intermittently quitting in version 4 now never works in 5

7 - mousewheel, randomely quits. does not work much more often than it doesn

8 - VST windows, will randomly not appear. ie. clicking on the plug window button, nothing happens - VST is not accidentlally pushed off the screen. have to delete the entire VST and re-add (thereby losing any presets you were working on if you hadnt saved them

9 - render issues (that i am not having, luckily)

10- extermely slow loadtimes on sets with anything more than a few audio channels. "White Screen of Death" on this and other tasks

--

all of these have been reported, most by multiple people, and i dont have the time to try and justify why we believe they are abletons problem to fix as the vendor and not ours as the user. its been done elsewhere.

some people are on substadard gear, or have buffers too low, or not enough memory, or have unrealistic espectations (10 VST synths running at once etc) or do not upgrade thier drivers, do not follow the board to pick up on solutions, etc

but many of us, no: we have tried everything. BEYOND everything. they are bugs or broken features. for sure.

its so bad that i feel exactly like the guy who started this thread, all the time. or ... i did, until i finally decided i cant use this program for other than certain tasks, and leave the arrangment and VSTs to another one (SX3)

which wastes a lot of my time i devoted to learning Live tequniqes - months and months, dont want to think tioo hard about it ... and slows down progress on projects i have almost complete and people are waiting for. in some cases release schedules

actually i know there are a couple of bugs or broken features that im not mentioning because ive been "working around" them for so long im not always consious of them unless im trying to do the task and they come up. i'll come back and add them later

hambone if you have any miracle solutions please give them. ableton doesnt need people always telling them how awesome they are, although its nice to have postive warm fuzzy feedback from the fans, if they dont hear why thier product isnt working for a hi enough percentage of users the company will go under ..

also, if you want to donate your perfectly performing rig for the benefit of the community, please donate it for autopsy so abelton can dissect why you seem to have none of these problems or any others, but a whole lot of other people do.
.
Last edited by supster on Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
--
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xl5
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Post by xl5 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:52 pm

Alex wrote:Hi xl5,
And it's LOADED with bugs. They fix one bug and two new ones appear
If it is loaded with bugs please get sure you have reported them to us.
From your postings I only know the "disabled menu bug" and that you wished multi-processor support.

regards,
/Alex
Hi Alex,
First thing I do when comming to the forum is this :
SEARCH. If I find a bug is already reported by more than one person i see no use to start a new thread for that. But now I know now that I should. And since it's not always possible to reproduce the conditions for the problem to happen or even to identify the conditions, I know what other people have been served as an answer in cases like those.
s
Ho and I don't wish for multi-proccessor support. I'm just sad it's not already here right now like on all other DAWs. So don't forget the ability to export all tracks individually at once. So we can mix those track in an application that supports multi processor. Thanks !

xl5
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:05 am
Location: Quebec City, Canada

Post by xl5 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:59 pm

supster wrote:
hambone1 wrote:Most dark clouds do have a silver lining, if you look hard enough.
well, then help me find the silver lining in these:

1 - very badly underperforming arrangeview at low resource usage. leads to lockups, "white screen of death" and occasional crashes.

2 - session view duplicating scenes parallels the arrange view problem. copy and paste parallels the arrange view slowdowns, although not quite to the same degree

3 - Live clips function efffectively useless, as its performance parallels the arrange view problem. as the lockups and waits increase on arrangeview, almost any Live clip task can lock up Live from anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 / 3 minutes - just like clips in the arrange view

4 - underperforming VSTs in comparison to other hosts, have never been able to simulataneously run more than 2 or 3 maximum (various combos of
atmosphere, trilogy, reaktor, guru, microtonic, z3ta, minimonsta, pro-53, absynth 3) and usually can only run 1 at most (probably a rompler like atmosphere)

5 - audio glitching issue, documented elsewhere. although im lucky, i only experience this under certain conditions, and because i have given up on using live as an arrangement app i dont get them anymore

6 - CTRL-SHFT-I duplicate scenes shorcut, does not work. started intermittently quitting in version 4 now never works in 5

7 - mousewheel, randomely quits. does not work much more often than it doesn

8 - VST windows, will randomly not appear. ie. clicking on the plug window button, nothing happens - VST is not accidentlally pushed off the screen. have to delete the entire VST and re-add (thereby losing any presets you were working on if you hadnt saved them

9 - render issues (that i am not having, luckily)

--

all of these have been reported, most by multiple people, and i dont have the time to try and justify why we believe they are abletons problem to fix as the vendor and not ours as the user. its been done elsewhere.

some people are on substadard gear, or have buffers too low, or not enough memory, or have unrealistic espectations (10 VST synths running at once etc) or do not upgrade thier drivers, do not follow the board to pick up on solutions, etc

but many of us, no: we have tried everything. BEYOND everything. they are bugs or broken features. for sure.

its so bad that i feel exactly like the guy who started this thread, all the time. or ... i did, until i finally decided i cant use this program for other than certain tasks, and leave the arrangment and VSTs to another one (SX3)

which wastes a lot of my time i devoted to learning Live tequniqes - months and months, dont want to think tioo hard about it ... and slows down progress on projects i have almost complete and people are waiting for. in some cases release schedules

actually i know there are a couple of bugs or broken features that im not mentioning because ive been "working around" them for so long im not always consious of them unless im trying to do the task and they come up. i'll come back and add them later

hambone if you have any miracle solutions please give them. ableton doesnt need people always telling them how awesome they are, although its nice to have postive warm fuzzy feedback from the fans, if they dont hear why thier product isnt working for a hi enough percentage of users the company will go under ..

also, if you want to donate your perfectly performing rig for the benefit of the community, please donate it for autopsy so abelton can dissect why you seem to have none of these problems or any others, but a whole lot of other people do.
.

Very well put. In fact trade the word Cubase for Logic Pro and it's no longer your story but mine.

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