what's better? HW drum machine?or SW dum sampler/machine?

[lola]

Yea, but hardware has its own outs, its own circuitboards, software has to much limitations in sound.
Every piece of soft that u run, goes trough the audio engine of your host, en finaly all goes throug the soundcard, yer drums will have the same character as your synths, so no character.

That is completely bullshit. Software is software, regardless of where you run it.

Your computer has more processing power and probably at least as good D/A convertes as any hardware synth (well, not if you have a soundblaster...).

There is no magic happening just because you take a sub standard (but dedicated) CPU and put it in it's own metal box. A computer is a computer. If it sounds better, it is because it runs better software, nothing else.

Yea, and u own hardware mr bullshit?
And what DA convertors on a analogue drumbox? or synth, haha
Btw even hardware synths with da's sound better then soft.
For me that is.

I am just hoping that u wont use this discussion cuz of defending your own software, and can't compare it to hardware.

[Machinate]

do you own a schaltwerk machinate?

oh yes indeedy! It's the only real "boutique" piece of gear I own - and it just sounds better

Lola, since you say hardware sounds better "for you" then you admit it's a subjective topic, right? aka, one that can't be settled on the interweb.

[Michael Hatsis]

In my way of thinking this has nothing to do with sound, but with hands on control. That's where hardware usually wins (in my book). For example my Elektron Machinedrum which can produce some unique sounds, but not so unique that it couldn't be made with some decent drum VSTi (MicroTonic?) and a few plugs. But the way to get there... that's way easier with the hands on tweakability of the Machinedrum. Maybe the Jomox is the same way? I'd say - let them complement each other.

Have a look at Shortcircuit from Vember Audio if you're looking for a cool (drum)sampler with lots(!) of tweakability and cool filters and FX.

Regards,
Mikael

Totally agree with you. You could coax some great sounds out of hardware or software or anything wlse for that matter. Both have their strong points - with software you can fit an entire studio within a 10" laptop. Hardware you dont have such portability.
Where software loses is hands on control - To me software instruments - effects are like watching porno. They look good, they have big knobs and if you mouse them or twist them the right way with a plastic, cheaply made MIDI controllers
the sounds will come - and in the end it feels good. With hardware - Let me start by saying that 3 years ago i had the great pleasure of tinkering with an arp 2600. Now, when just standing in front of this huge piece of circuit and metal a warm tingling came over my body. Then i turned it on, From the feel of the 3604 keyboard to the scratchy grit you hear when tweaking the spring reverb knob -- tactile stimulation. Then add to that the imperfect analog sound and zero-latency hands on control and thats what you have - The Real Thing.
But in the end its all about the music, production and design. So wahtever works for you and is comfortable to you is what's good..

Michael

[Mike Goodwin]

I have used an EMU E5000, Akai s900 and my EMU XL7, as well as my Nord Lead to make drum patterns with and for some sounds microtonic or reaktor blow them all away. Microtonic for example just has more punch and is cleaner sounding. If your dealing with analog gear than you have a leg to stand on but as long as your dealing with digital gear all your listening to that may differ the sound is the DA's and well all the sounds coming out of that box are going through the same DA's so they all have the same "character" or distortion. So unless your running your seperate sounds off seperate drum boxes with seperate converters then guess what..... there all going to have the same dame "character". I find my beats have way more "character" when I use a kick from microtonic, snare from my sample library, some hats from a crazy reaktor synth sampler sequencer combo with random elements. Then rout it all through all the seperate hits through seperate 1176 compressors off my UAD DSP card and add a some killer reverb from my Powercore DSP. Then buss it all down through the filters on my Access Powercore Virus VSTI to add all the "character" that I can handle. To me this is going to have WAY more "character" than running a single hardware box into my soundcard. Sorry just dont see it. I guess if you can afford to pay 10,000 for a rack of hardware 1176's and another $5-10,000 to buy racks of analog drum synths, as well as a couple of killer drum samplers and another 2000 for a decent mixer then power to you! I personaly dont feel the need as the software sounds so dam good. Each method had a different quality and they are all valid. Why people have to try and tell other people what is "better" in art is beond me anyway and why the hell did I just spend time wrightiing alll this out anyway?

[lola]

Its a strange fact, that people are gonna buy summin products, external hardware eq's compressors, mixers, cuz they use software but they miss something in sound.
Record 24 bit 192 khz just to get a sound, they compensate and search and search for that sound from the ealy days. With hardware u won't need all that.
Recording 16/44.1 is just enough, no much hassle.
Its magic.

[SimonPHC]

what's better? HW drum machine?or SW dum sampler/machine?

neither

both

what you can work with

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

Its a strange fact, that people are gonna buy summin products, external hardware eq's compressors, mixers, cuz they use software but they miss something in sound.
Record 24 bit 192 khz just to get a sound, they compensate and search and search for that sound from the ealy days. With hardware u won't need all that.
Recording 16/44.1 is just enough, no much hassle.
Its magic.

Seems to me you're talking about analog vs. digital. That's a different discussion - one that I, by the feel of it, wont agree with you on either. Try me in a different thread!

Regards,
Mikael

[lola]

Its a strange fact, that people are gonna buy summin products, external hardware eq's compressors, mixers, cuz they use software but they miss something in sound.
Record 24 bit 192 khz just to get a sound, they compensate and search and search for that sound from the ealy days. With hardware u won't need all that.
Recording 16/44.1 is just enough, no much hassle.
Its magic.

Seems to me you're talking about analog vs. digital. That's a different discussion - one that I, by the feel of it, wont agree with you on either. Try me in a different thread!

Regards,
Mikael

No, just hardware vs soft.
Its all subjective i know.

But why do the digital range drumboxes sound much better then a soft one?
More dynamics, not so clean as software.
Even an old s950 blows kontakt away as an example.
Not talking specs and features but just soundwise.

[Michael-SW]

Yea, and u own hardware mr bullshit?
And what DA convertors on a analogue drumbox? or synth, haha
Btw even hardware synths with da's sound better then soft.
For me that is.

I am just hoping that u wont use this discussion cuz of defending your own software, and can't compare it to hardware.

Yep, I have a Korg Wavestation EX, an Korg Electribe EMX-1 and a Dave Smith Evolver. I like them all very much. But I don't for one moment think software synths magically sound better just because you put them in their own separate metal box. Software is software.

(The Evolver is a special case since it is an analog/digital hybrid)

And I was of course talking about digital synths all the time,

[lola]

Yea, and u own hardware mr bullshit?
And what DA convertors on a analogue drumbox? or synth, haha
Btw even hardware synths with da's sound better then soft.
For me that is.

I am just hoping that u wont use this discussion cuz of defending your own software, and can't compare it to hardware.

Yep, I have a Korg Wavestation EX, an Korg Electribe EMX-1 and a Dave Smith Evolver. I like them all very much. But I don't for one moment think software synths magically sound better just because you put them in their own separate metal box. Software is software.

(The Evolver is a special case since it is an analog/digital hybrid)

And I was of course talking about digital synths all the time,

Software is software ?
Why is it that a clavia, sounds better then its soft emu like synth 1?
Why is it that a real dx7 blows the socks of FM 7?


Again, all of your software goes trough the same audioengine of your host , and just 1 da stage! unless u own 10 different brand of soundcard, for each soft synth 1.

There is another thing, software is coded also to spare cpu power, but even with a cpu hog like the z3ta, can't even come close to the real power of a real acces virus.

[FaX-01]

No, just hardware vs soft.
Its all subjective i know.

But why do the digital range drumboxes sound much better then a soft one?
More dynamics, not so clean as software.
Even an old s950 blows kontakt away as an example.
Not talking specs and features but just soundwise.

Lola just shut the hell up and use Reaktor 5 already would you .



Now you are smoking crack
"Why is it that a real dx7 blows the socks of FM 7? " -
Having owned a DX7IIFDe with grey matter board I'm sorry but I'd take FM7 any day of the week.
It runs shit rings around it.
If that statement had held that an SY99 sounded better than FM7 I'd probably agree but sorry that one quote was an utter and total crock.

[lola]

No, just hardware vs soft.
Its all subjective i know.

But why do the digital range drumboxes sound much better then a soft one?
More dynamics, not so clean as software.
Even an old s950 blows kontakt away as an example.
Not talking specs and features but just soundwise.

Lola just shut the hell up and use Reaktor 5 already would you .



Now you are smoking crack
"Why is it that a real dx7 blows the socks of FM 7? " -
Having owned a DX7IIFDe with grey matter board I'm sorry but I'd take FM7 any day of the week.
It runs shit rings around it.
If that statement had held that an SY99 sounded better than FM7 I'd probably agree but sorry that one quote was an utter and total crock.

Why shut up?
I am talking sound!!!!!!! not specs!
Fuck specs.
Yes reactor dan do a lot, but does it sound good to my ears?
Njet.


its the sound that counts at the end, its that what makes your mix.
Why does everybody sound the same mixwise?
Its cause of soft, they all sound like the music hanging in a h2o installer.

Mixwise that is.

[Ambioun - Techno Man]

Its realy simple, if u go for sound, choose hardware.
If the sound doesnt mather, go for software.

comletely ludicrous. there are some sounds software does better. some hardware does better.

Comletely? Is this some new type of stew?

No, but really? The only reason why software tends to sound the same "Atleast in Reaktor" is because they all use the built in synths "or presets". You need to understand that if you own a TR909 and I own a TR909 it is going to sound relativly the same in both of our mixes. So slamming software saying it sounds the same is the same for hardware.

Shouldn't we be discussing music and how to make music instead of gear wars? We can fight about Korg being superior to Roland but at the end of the day, you liveset is still fcking empty.[/u]

[rbmonosylabik]

ok, I'm officially leaving this thread never to come back

[FaX-01]

Why shut up?
I am talking sound!!!!!!! not specs!
Fuck specs.
Yes reactor dan do a lot, but does it sound good to my ears?
Njet.


its the sound that counts at the end, its that what makes your mix.
Why does everybody sound the same mixwise?
Its cause of soft, they all sound like the music hanging in a h2o installer.

Mixwise that is.

Hmmmmm gimme some of those hardware placebo's your taking would you
.

I still stand by this statement -

Now you are smoking crack .


You SAID -

"Why is it that a real dx7 blows the socks of FM 7? " -


I replied -


Having owned a DX7IIFDe with grey matter board I'm sorry but I'd take FM7 any day of the week.
It runs shit rings around it.
If that statement had held that an SY99 sounded better than FM7 I'd probably agree but sorry that one quote was an utter and total crock.



Using your logic all VSTi's or AU's would pretty much sound the same purely based on your sound cards DA output.
Well why is it that some sound like crud and others sound exceptional?
Surely that SynthEdit creation should match that NI synth for example.
And any two virtual samplers would sound absolutely identical.
Newsflash - they don't,
Lets go one step further.
WE ALL USE hardware for that Magical DA variable output and or Analog sound.
WE THEN ALL record through the same AD/DA converters (you keep moaning about) in our DAW's and then mix/produce and pump it back out again.
Well we'd all be suffering the same problems you seem to be crapping on about.
All sound mixed out the same AD/DA converters.
So what is your point exactly.
Sure I'd take a MachineDrum and say a Nord Modular over their virtual counterparts any day of the week if I had the money,
I'd still be using the same A/D - D/A converters though so I'm back to square one using your logic.
The reality is WE cant all afford hardware.
Secondly show me ANYTHING in hardware that will do or sound remotely like
CUBE / TERA / ABSYNTH / REAKTOR or the Physical Modeling quality of AAS's TASSMAN and I'll eat my hat OK.
Sorry you won't find it out there I guarantee you.
Music suffers because of poor production technique,
It isn't all about THE SOUND.
What about the damn ideas used compositionally for starters.
Hardware does not = better music or better sounding music by a long shot.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
If it sucks it sucks.
Poor ideas are poor ideas.
Many a boring album has been released produced with hardware.
Etc etc etc etc ...