Loops and guilt

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:52 pm

dj superflat wrote:ok, just to get a rise out of the drummers here, can you really call what most drummers do in a band anything more creative than picking what loop to play? ever since a certain kind of inventive drumming went out of style (post police? post early 80s? whatever), most drummers just play a loop. and if you're really writing the songs for a band, you come in and hum what you want from the drummer anyway. so using a drum loop, particularly to get you started or in addition to drums you play on impulse or whatever seems like a no brainer.

Most rock I've heard lately the drummer is actually an MPC or someother kind of sampler playing a drum loop with fills etc etc

My friends band has everything but a drummer - weird huh? Sax players, guitar players, lame rappers and keyboardist - drums are programmed via a MPC - they're pretty good except for the really bad hip hop mc - they have 2 so obe drowns the other out

I hate real music it's so loud and distorted and if you're not a good band it's all out of tune

I love techno music - clean, punchy and the ability to improvise is infinate

rbro · Post by **rbro** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:57 pm

djadonis206 wrote: I hate real music it's so loud and distorted and if you're not a good band it's all out of tune

I love techno music - clean, punchy and the ability to improvise is infinate

that's funny

dpel · Post by **dpel** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

they're tools.
use them to build, to create something new.
use them legally.
use them legally and you won't have guilt.

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

rbro wrote: Well here's the oter part of my question. What is needed legally in terms of "clearing them"? Aren't all these loops (Apple Loops, Live's loops) essentially "Royalty Free"? Does an artist who uses them need to get any kind of permission to use them in a commercial recording? Do they need to even give credit? I've always assumed that it's like using royalty free stock photo images in web design or something...am I wrong?

Depends on where you buy them from, some are cleared so you don't need to do anything, others you need to clear each one, allways check to be on the safe side if it doenst say anything about it on the cd sleeve.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

rbro wrote:
djadonis206 wrote: I hate real music it's so loud and distorted and if you're not a good band it's all out of tune

I love techno music - clean, punchy and the ability to improvise is infinate
that's funny

I also hate tomatoe soup - just the smell of Grilled Cheese and Tomatoe soup makes me want to throw up

Actually I like good real music and I hate bad real music - just to clarify

koranek · Post by **koranek** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:21 pm

On the other hand...

It's kind of like saying that playing music with other musicians is 1) crap, 2) not creative, 3) cheating, etc.

It's kind of like saying that using an audio engineer or a studio is 1) crap, etc.

On the other hand...

If all you use is loops and loops only, that's like playing with other musicians and not actually playing yourself. You are part of the creative process, but in a basically diminished way.

On the other hand...

It's still fun and more creative than watching TV, so who cares.

rbro · Post by **rbro** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:08 pm

koranek wrote:On the other hand...

It's kind of like saying that playing music with other musicians is 1) crap, 2) not creative, 3) cheating, etc.

It's kind of like saying that using an audio engineer or a studio is 1) crap, etc.

On the other hand...

If all you use is loops and loops only, that's like playing with other musicians and not actually playing yourself. You are part of the creative process, but in a basically diminished way.

On the other hand...

It's still fun and more creative than watching TV, so who cares.

and of course, where do you draw the line? Is it ok to use presets in soft synths or is that cheating?

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:18 pm

rbro wrote:and of course, where do you draw the line? Is it ok to use presets in soft synths or is that cheating?

Yes, it's cheating yourself out of learning how to create the sounds you want.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:43 pm

Whatever tools you need to be creative - I say go for it.

It's kinda shortsighted to say that drummers are just playing loops. That's not true. The cool thing about drummers is that they all play differently. Seriously. You could have a kit set up and have 100 different drummers come in and play a basic 4 x 4 beat - and they would all sound completely different.

I mess around with loops. I don't take the work I create with loops very seriously. But that's just me. Personally, I think that if you want bongos on a song, it'll sound a million times better to bust out some bongo drums and a mic. Even if you suck at bongos, just hit something with a mic on it and bring your recording to life.

But, that said, I don't fall into the "loops = rotten eggs" group. If the lightbulb is going off on the top of your head I don't mind what it took to get you there.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:44 pm

ILTK wrote:
Yes, it's cheating yourself out of learning how to create the sounds you want.

True

Over the course of time you should be learning as you go - I have

but I'm sure some people are less interested in learning how to do something and more interesting in just doing it

and once you've learned what's what for the time being and you make a conscious decision to (use loops) then what? You could be a very talented beat writer with real (er sampled) drum parts but prefer loops because certain loops have certain elements in them (a specific conga loop or you like the way it does this or that)

I do see both sides of the debate and I know how to program beats however I prefer to use loops in certain situations because of the sound I get from a loop recorded fresh off of vinyl

also once you cut up, compress and eq your loops to death you can't even recognize it anymore

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:48 pm

ILTK wrote:
rbro wrote:and of course, where do you draw the line? Is it ok to use presets in soft synths or is that cheating?
Yes, it's cheating yourself out of learning how to create the sounds you want.

yes.

kooki415 · Post by **kooki415** » Mon May 15, 2006 6:55 pm

to achieve true techno god status, you must compose a complete track with nothing but the amen or funky drummer break.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:03 pm

kooki415 wrote:to achieve true techno god status, you must compose a complete track with nothing but the amen or funky drummer break.

Techno? Or Drum and Bass?

Actually music from last I heard has no rules so in a way you're correct - we're all right

but that would be a cool techno track with a Amen break on the break downs and sick Hoover bass sweep

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:19 pm

look at fatboy slim,he couldnt program a beat to save his life(so he says),but the man has put out some quality tunes over the years.

rbro · Post by **rbro** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:47 pm

I could learn how to brew my own beer, but I tend to just buy it. Does that mean I'm cheating myself out of learning how to brew beer? I know some people who rarely go out to eat because it's cheaper and "better" when they cook themselves. I have no answers, I'm just saying.......