Live 3 - OSX performance and optimization

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:31 pm

I am really excited that there is going to be a v3 release but I am bummed out that registered users have to pay for it. I just picked up Live2 in Feb. Does anyone know the estimated price?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 6:44 pm

rtfws.

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=n ... b=beta3ann

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:55 pm

Anonymous wrote:rtfws.

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=n ... b=beta3ann

Right, so you're saying you don't know how much it's going to cost either.

DBAFD

jamieh · Post by **jamieh** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:20 am

Krzysztof wrote: My point? Consider Live the Program from from the point of reference of the writers/programmers and not from the point of the user, and you will be truly shocked at what is being accomplished here. I myself am overjoyed at what Live has give to me as a user, and I am equally thankful that I'm not having to program/optimize the thing. It's doing wonders with zeros and ones that I would much rather not have to figure out.
The creativity and thought that has gone into this program honours us the users by allowing us to create so splendidly. So lets do a turn and honour the developers/abletonites. Consider what has gone into this program's development and then consider whether it's better to work with it at it's present state (wishes/complaints set aside) or whether it's better pull up your sleeves and get to work writing your own program.

Krzysztof

Brilliant and well said. With Live the way it is now I am working in ways I always dreamed was possible. A year from now...one can only speculate.
Kudos to Ableton and long live Live!
Cheers,
J

jamief · Post by **jamief** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:15 am

MMMMMM.

Ableton aint messing about hear. If only Steinberg would take alook at their production and upgrading process.

Well Done Ableton Team !!!!!!!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:45 pm

Krzysztof wrote: The creativity and thought that has gone into this program honours us the users by allowing us to create so splendidly. So lets do a turn and honour the developers/abletonites. Consider what has gone into this program's development and then consider whether it's better to work with it at it's present state (wishes/complaints set aside) or whether it's better pull up your sleeves and get to work writing your own program.

Krzysztof

Krzysztof, I can't agree more with you. This is exactly why I ask here for a upgrade in term of performance on my preferred paltform.

I can't use part of this nice program, and becouse I'm not a Mecenate I need it to work for me before Buy a new version that push my creativity UP.

I want to Buy v.3... I want to let Ableton know that I have some little problem in using it.

And also (this can be OT)... I like to support another thing that is for me a creative and different way of think do things. It's name is Apple. If software house don't support it, form my absolutely personall point of view, I will kill some other creativity as well.

Sorry for my bad english.

speedbird · Post by **speedbird** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:17 pm

The only problem I have with that is, I've paid for a V2 upgrade which never worked properly. I use it as rewire-slave with Nuendo2.
2.0 did not work as Re-Wire slave and 2.1 has the file-browser bug.

This time Ableton asks the second time to pay for an upgrade, although I could never work with the first one.
Don't give me any bullshit like 'on my machine it works flawless' etc.
I have a pretty standard ASUS P4T533-C mobo with P4 3.0GHZ, RME cards, WinXP...
We are an SSL equipped recording facility and very experienced with computers, back to the days of ProTools II ten years ago.

Everything works almost flawless except Live is completely useless at the moment.

I hope Ableton was 'able' to fix this serious problems with V3. I'd be even willing to pay for that. Still I find it rather odd.
A better stretch algorythm wouldn't hurt either....

Steve
RME London

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:50 pm

I have to add my name to the list of people who would like Live 3 to be improved for OS X.

I use Live as my primary DAW, i.e. not just as a clip-based sample player (I gave up on Cubase SX 1.0).

Currently, it says the minimum requirements are '256 MB and any G3'. I have 5 times that much and a G4/450. I use a 7200RPM FireWire external disk for audio.

However, ReWired to Reason (in the background, inactive), playing back two tracks of recorded audio and applying only two effects (compression and reverb), the audio stutters and the CPU load spikes to something like 90%. I end up having to quit the application.

I don't understand how I can have something like 20+ soft instruments and effects in Reason chugging away blissfully, but playing back a couple of channels of audio with moderate FX causes Live to choke as if I had asked it to run on a Sinclair ZX-81.

If Live really, really, really needs something more than a G4/450, then Ableton should post more realistic minimum specs.

If not, then may I humbly suggest:

-Supplementing streaming-from-disk playback with a more robust playback-from-RAM architecture that takes advantage of as much memory as it needs, automatically.

-An option to set maximum CPU usage threshold, if there isn't already one.

-Making the core audio engine multithreaded, multiprocessor and Altivec-enabled, if it isn't already.

-Tweak Live's custom UI code to take advantage of Quartz and Quartz Extreme, if not already. In addition, there are several libraries (such as waveform display, etc.) that are included in the standard OS X dev tools - if they're faster, why not use them?

(On that note, is Live's UI code a CPU overhead problem? Maybe have an option to use standard Aqua UI?)

I'd also love to see the following features added:
- native support for REX and REX2 file formats (import/export) - I want to use Live to record and create loops for Reason.
- super-basic waveform editing (trimming, cut, copy and paste). I shouldn't need an external editor to do this.
- Recording gain control (not just post-processing in Clip View) - a little trim control on each Arranger track / Session channel would be nice.

Thanks!

sgerst · Post by **sgerst** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:12 am

I just finished a major project in Live- after recording vocals into Reason/ using ReCycle to change form 130 to 132 bpm and slice for sampling- doing a basic remix/import in to Live.
Then trigger midi via Protools and record Virus-> transfer to Live-
(why didn't I just record into Live and edit? I needed midi.)

After all of this- I was able to track 48 tracks of audio (most not all short loops), using all four sends with verb on one, delays on two, filters on two and compression on one, with minimal stuttering only after about one hour of tinnkering/editing which a relog in fixed.
I was able to mix down/ render flawlossly.
All in Live.
And I just scratched the surface of what Live is capable of.

Give me BASIC midi. Waves support (plugs) by better compatibility or AU. And minimally better performance, and I will never go to ProTools/Cubase SX (I have both) again. I LOVE Live. For loop based music, it's freakin amazing. Thank you ABLETON.

G4 Powerbook/ 800 MHz/ 512 RAM / internal 5400 rpm HD. System optimized with System Optimizer X.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 2:12 am

Anonymous wrote:Currently, it says the minimum requirements are '256 MB and any G3'. I have 5 times that much and a G4/450. I use a 7200RPM FireWire external disk for audio.
If Live really, really, really needs something more than a G4/450, then Ableton should post more realistic minimum specs.

Be aware that Live's Reverb, while very sweet sounding, is a CPU hog of extreme proportions... I can't run two of them set to First Class quality on my computer (G3 900, slight but only slightly more powerful than yours) - no matter how many audio tracks I'm running. I can however have five layers of guitar, a drum track and a bass track running with no problems. Of all of Live's effects, during actual track arranging/mixing (as opposed to loop mangling/layering) I only use the EQ and the Vinyl Distortion from Live. Everything else is MDA plugs (which are nicer on your processor)... I think AU support would clear things up even more, as I think AUs are even better implemented and optimised under OSX.

-Paws

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:59 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
Be aware that Live's Reverb, while very sweet sounding, is a CPU hog of extreme proportions... I can't run two of them set to First Class quality on my computer - no matter how many audio tracks I'm running.
-Paws

This is one reason why Altivec support would really help the Mac version of Live. High quality reverb is floating-point intensive and would benefit greatly from Altivec.

ajkandy · Post by **ajkandy** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:29 pm

[quote]Be aware that Live's Reverb, while very sweet sounding, is a CPU hog of extreme proportions... I can't run two of them set to First Class quality on my computer (G3 900, slight but only slightly more powerful than yours) - no matter how many audio tracks I'm running.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info. Hmm! It's not just me then. This was a single reverb set to Economy, as a matter of fact.

Altivec, Altivec, Altivec, folks! On the G4 and G5, this is a deal-breaker. I'm considering switching to Bias Deck or Logic if it doesn't arrive in Live 3.0...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:29 pm

héhé OSX optimisation in live 3.0 ????

I don't understand why they decided to be compatible with pro tools!!!
Develop optimisation to OS x will be more right and fixe ALL BUG !!!!!!!!!!

michael@uchicago.edu · Post by **michael@uchicago.edu** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:48 am

hi,

i completely agree with this whole os x issue. i just bought ableton 2 after having used it on my pc demo version and worked out some great projects.

i am working on a house remix project, and i bought my 12inch powerbook and ableton just for it. i am really mad that macs are so slow with ableton, while a pc whirs away infinitely.

ableton, please please optimize. these are supposed to be fast right???

egon o. · Post by **egon o.** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 7:38 am

stid wrote:... I will pay for it if...:

...if it will be optimized for Mac OSX. I will not upgrade if altivec and specific apple optimization is ingored in next version. ...
Just my opinion.

how about getting a solid pc beside your mac to run ??

im on a win-pc and if i want to use logic 6, i got to go for a mac..... if i want to use final-cut , i have to get a mac too....

cant you mac-heads realize that , if you want some fast-ableton-live-experience, should invest some more bucks for a win-pc ??
think about the other cool "win-only" apps you are able to use then ...

you could be so flexible ...

or you get another mac , sync those two, split your project, then it should go ah little bit faster....

sorry

Live 3 - OSX performance and optimization

Need realistic requirements, Altivec optimization, MP-aware

performance in 2.1- hopes for 3.x

Re: Need realistic requirements, Altivec optimization, MP-aware

Re: Need realistic requirements, Altivec optimization, MP-aw

Re: Need realistic requirements, Altivec optimization, MP-aware

i just bought a mac and ableton

Re: Live 3 - OSX performance and optimization