Where's the improved crossfader??????

[robbmasters]

It should have three types like regular DJ mixers have

I'd be happy with just one curve as look as it was a "good" curve. My Pioneer DJM-500 has only got one curve, but that's just fine. I'm guessing that Live's is a straight line but the DJM-500's is truly curved - so that you get less of a change around the centre, and a steeper drop off at the ends.

Since we've been asking for this since the first versions of Live, and I don't believe it can be all that hard or time consuming to implement, I think this is one of the things that demonstrates Ableton's loss of interest in live performers. Just my opinion, mind.

But just this one feature would probably have persuaded me to upgrade. Without it, I have no compelling reason...

[Johnisfaster]

anyone else getting the idea that ableton isn't spending alot of time thinking about dj's? I get that idea. not that it bothers me cause I don't dj. I just think they're more considering the wants and needs of the producer in a daw world mixed with the live hands on control instant glory type thing. but "dj" features seem to be neglected and I can't say I blame them all that much as dj'ing is complete possible as is in my mind. I mean if you could dj 20 years ago using 2 turntables then I sure think you can manage to dj using software like this with all it has to offer. though crossfade curves is a good idea I wouldn't expect it to get implimented now that they don't appear to be a "dj" driven program anymore.

[Angstrom]

I think you are wrong there. I have 'issues' with DJs in general, but the idea of a "Live DJ" is somthing different. Well, it is if the user has any sense.

Most of the basic DJ losers who drift by just forget it after a while, but the creative types who want more that an Technics emulator hang on. Those people are adding stuff and chopping beats,not a great deal different to what passes for 'producing' these days.

There's not a huge dividing line between 'Live DJ' and 'Live PA' users, they are all in the same pool. Shades of grey, not black and white

I think the only reason you haven't seen the crossfade addressed is because they have other plans for doing that function a bit better. my personal bet is user assignable curves for all input devices - modified by the new midi and macro screens.

most Likely L7

[Johnisfaster]

I know what you mean about live dj and live producers being the same in a way. I know live dj's don't just mix 2 tracks and go on their way (at least not if they are good). but live has begun saturating the laptop dj market and I think they have decided to gear toward the more untouched market like live musicians and producers. for instance the splash screen has violins and pianos on it. and the new multi sampler isn't in the dj vien at all.

alot of times if you tell people you use live they think "isn't that just a dj program?" and I think thats a stigma that they don't necessarily want. if they updated the fader now then it would be a marketed as a feature and it would say "fresh new dj fader styles that help you fade like the dj pro's" and it would help the stigma of "dj program" stick with it.

not that I think they'll never update it, but I think they are working on a differnt image right now.

that and if someone really really cares about good dj faders and doing things right they should have a decent mixer with a fader on it imho.

[Pepehouse]

there is nothing wrong with live's crossfader.

functionally speaking you are correct, but it is less useful as a real tool for crossfading tracks or loops when the curve is so extreme. It should have three types like regular DJ mixers have, or more ideally, a configurable curve that allows you to set the volume levels more appropriate to your style.

Right now its just functional, but not very useful for using well beyond its hardcoded preset.

rob.

Totally agreed I couldn't explain it better, Live's crossfader just cuts (hip-hop style) but most of the users are not playing this kind of music and need something smoother (club style) to slowly introduce their tracks.

Post your disappointment here, if we make this thread big maybe the abes will consider a change.

[pulsoc]

there is nothing wrong with live's crossfader.

functionally speaking you are correct, but it is less useful as a real tool for crossfading tracks or loops when the curve is so extreme. It should have three types like regular DJ mixers have, or more ideally, a configurable curve that allows you to set the volume levels more appropriate to your style.

Right now its just functional, but not very useful for using well beyond its hardcoded preset.

rob.

Totally agreed I couldn't explain it better, Live's crossfader just cuts (hip-hop style) but most of the users are not playing this kind of music and need something smoother (club style) to slowly introduce their tracks.

Post your disappointment here, if we make this thread big maybe the abes will consider a change.

Whatever. They won't even implement internal midi control.

ARRRGGGG!!!!

[pulsoc]

I know what you mean about live dj and live producers being the same in a way. I know live dj's don't just mix 2 tracks and go on their way (at least not if they are good). but live has begun saturating the laptop dj market and I think they have decided to gear toward the more untouched market like live musicians and producers. for instance the splash screen has violins and pianos on it. and the new multi sampler isn't in the dj vien at all.

alot of times if you tell people you use live they think "isn't that just a dj program?" and I think thats a stigma that they don't necessarily want. if they updated the fader now then it would be a marketed as a feature and it would say "fresh new dj fader styles that help you fade like the dj pro's" and it would help the stigma of "dj program" stick with it.

not that I think they'll never update it, but I think they are working on a differnt image right now.

that and if someone really really cares about good dj faders and doing things right they should have a decent mixer with a fader on it imho.

You really amaze me John. Really. Let me understand your points.

1. Live won't implement new, very basic features, for fear they will be "brand" stigmatized.

2. People who spent hundreds of dollars on this software should invest in a physical crossfader and ignore the included "soft" crossfader (which is eyecandy I suppose) to have this kind of easily coded functionality.

Brilliant.

[robtronik]

Per that analysis of DJing vs. Producer playback in Live above.

It's pretty simple: Live is what you make it.

It can be simple or it can be complex. I prefer to have the options to get complex if I want, but to be honest, I find that my DJing is fully effective by using just the set loops, triggering, and some really effective layering. I use external effects like what is found on the DJM-800 or the EFX-1000 to spice a mix up.

But for the most part, if you concentrate on the mix and have good track selection, Live can get out of the way and you can concentrate on moving the dancefloor. That's ideal. And the crossfader gets in the way right now of getting the music out in the way you want because it's too simple. It needs more complex options beyond what it has now so we can use it effectively.

rob.

[j0shu@]

there is nothing wrong with live's crossfader.

to most of us, its way too harsh / fast to be useful mixing.

i dont even use it anymore.

[dCross]

Are most of you looking for dipless curves or scratch-oriented curves?

I'm asking b/c MIDI latency makes any MIDI crossfader useless for the kind of cuts turntablists need to do.

[robbmasters]

I'm not sure what a "dipless curve" is, but I think the answer is "no" for me. I just want to create smooth transitions. To do so with Live, I have to be really careful with the crossfader to only move it by a tiny amount. That doesn't really translate to a good performance as I end up concentrating on the exact position of the crossfader, instead of concentrating on the music. However, if I'm doing a set with my Pioneer DJM-500, I never have to think about the crossfader.

[kabuki]

I have been BEGGING for this to be added since they gave us a crossfader. The curreent one feels too stiff. (It is a dipless fader currently).

What they need is a fader curve with less drop off in the center and a harsher cut on the ends. It slows down the audio drop in the center but makes hard cuts/slams snappier. This has nothing to do with scratching BTW, just FEEL for basic crossfades. It makes a WORLD of difference.

If you haven't used a crossfader with this curve, head to a guitar center and play with a Rane or a Pioneer... then you will know.

[djastroboy]

Yes for me too the Live crossfader is useless.

It's like back in the days when I couldn't afford to fix my (Gemini!) mixer's worn-out crossfader, so I just learned to use the channel faders.

Good news: infinately fine control over the "curve" of your "crossfader".
Bad news: YOU NEED TWO HANDS. How am I going to check my email while on stage if both hands are occupied?
No, wait, scratch that email stuff (how 90s, ugh), how am i gonne check my myspace friend requests...???

[djastroboy]

Are most of you looking for dipless curves or scratch-oriented curves?

I'm asking b/c MIDI latency makes any MIDI crossfader useless for the kind of cuts turntablists need to do.

No no just a "constant power" curve.

[John Sweet]

I've always wanted to get a bigger fader as a workaround. Not Maven big, but bigger.

It's possible that straight DJ features are a little lowbrow for the Ableton crew, like they don't want to be a Traktor killer because that would be slumming it. They've been adding really powerful synth/sequencer features that are huge for DJs as much as anyone, but some of the old classic requests go unheard.

The part of vinyl DJing that's still kinda missing in Live is that instantaneous sense of getting your hands on your music, with all the subtle and random magic that creates. There's always been DJ attitude behind a lot of Live features. I just hope the old DJ focus stays in spite of this big push toward being a super DAW. Things like controller curve adjustment, scrubbing clip previews etc, help everybody out. Just because something is typically a DJ software feature doesn't make it a bad idea.