Ableton Forum

thanks for all the info guys. the lemur looks interesting. but can it really do everything the mackie can? the interface doesn't look like it fits that much on there. I dont know anything in the way of programming that stuff though either.

i dont think i understand these things - emagic logic control, mackie control - are they the same? whats the mackie control upgrade chip?

whats this about the template for mackie and ableton not being done yet? , i take it thats just a physical printout to overlay on top of the control.

i just bought a Behringer BCF2000 and a BCR2000. basicly this is a mackie control with C4 extension.

and than i also still have the uc33e.

i read some threads about Mackie emulation too. now thats a deal.

with a combination like that... and its a fraction of the price of the mackie.

Mackie is just way to expensive...come on we are taking simple midicontrollers here!

queglay wrote:i dont think i understand these things - emagic logic control, mackie control - are they the same? whats the mackie control upgrade chip?

yes, they are the same.
the mackie control universal chip is just that - an update to the Logic control that would make it compatible with all other DAWs. Nowadays almost every Logic/Mackie control has it installed.

whats this about the template for mackie and ableton not being done yet? , i take it thats just a physical printout to overlay on top of the control.

good question, ask mackie

BoimB son of BoB wrote:i just bought a Behringer BCF2000 and a BCR2000. basicly this is a mackie control with C4 extension.

and than i also still have the uc33e.

i read some threads about Mackie emulation too. now thats a deal.

with a combination like that... and its a fraction of the price of the mackie.

Mackie is just way to expensive...come on we are taking simple midicontrollers here!

I have a BCF2000 as well... basicly, it works, but it's nothing like the Mackie control.
The faders on the mackie are touch sensitive and the most accurate I've ever tried.
Then you have the display, a jog wheel, transport and tons of buttons and leds - with the mackie control you could throw your computer keyboard.

For me the mackie control is the perfect studio companion, but I bring the bcf2000 on stage.

>the lemur looks interesting. but can it really do everything the mackie can? the
>interface doesn't look like it fits that much on there. I dont know anything in the
>way of programming that stuff though either.

@queglay: I own a lemur, and I can emulate several mackie controls at the same time; aka one for ableton live, one for propheads reason, one for my hardware interface (rme fireface). plus you can control effects and synthparameters with some additional pages with included physical emulation or even build stepsequencers. it's not that bad after all one BIG difference is, you don't have real knobs and faders...it's all visual, so you have to keep an eye onto it !!! aka there is no feeling WHERE a fader, knob physically is... but to tell you the truth I own as well a mackie controll, and I'm gonna sell it soon... for me there is no real use for it anymore...

kind regards

daniel

your quite the salseman. haha. so tell me does the lemur it automaticly map its interface quickly so you dont have to do all that crap manually? Im guessing not.

do you think the screen is big enough?

i really need to see someone using it with ableton. i can imagine things like shifting eq points and multi parameter effects would be awesome. and then being able to switch over to program a drum machine would be sweet too.

just found a video of that actually -
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2901

can you create your own interface objects for the lemur?

probably the most glaring omision i find for it is that you should be able to display something like ableton on the lemur. this would require an alternative approach i know, but at least then you wouldn't be stuffing around with all this mapping of midi crap.

ive just been reading this article and a few others on the lemur -
http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?storycode=13291

and i have to say im not as impressed as i could be. theres some stuff in there thats just plain stupid like the mapping of midi. it would be so easy for the lemur to have a midi configure mode where it only sends midi info for something when you are touching on the screen. apparently you have to do it through that jazz editor.

is there any kind of auto map equivalent function for this lemur? does the mackie control emulation work well or even flawlessly?

I wonder how soon this version of lemur will be superceeded and what new features will appear in the next version.

queglay wrote:your quite the salseman. haha. so tell me does the lemur it automaticly map its interface quickly so you dont have to do all that crap manually? Im guessing not.

do you think the screen is big enough?

i really need to see someone using it with ableton. i can imagine things like shifting eq points and multi parameter effects would be awesome. and then being able to switch over to program a drum machine would be sweet too.

of course, you can do that

just found a video of that actually -
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2901

can you create your own interface objects for the lemur?

Users can choose from more than ten primary objects for interface creation : knobs, faders, LCDs, sliders, 2D areas, all with multiple behavior parameters

probably the most glaring omision i find for it is that you should be able to display something like ableton on the lemur. this would require an alternative approach i know, but at least then you wouldn't be stuffing around with all this mapping of midi crap.

Dude, imagine for one second Live is displayed on your Lemur. Do you really find it more convenient to manipulate small Send knobs with your finger tips ? How do you change multiplle effect parameters on multiple tracks from the Live interface ?
Live would have to be rewritten from scratch to support multiple cursors (the selling point of the Lemur is its multitouch patented display) instead of one single mouse cursor, and the interface completely rethought. So that wouldn't be Live then.

ive just been reading this article and a few others on the lemur -
http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?storycode=13291

and i have to say im not as impressed as i could be. theres some stuff in there thats just plain stupid like the mapping of midi.

Be aware that this Keyboard review covers the v1.3 of the Lemur, vefore tremendous updates were brought to the way objects are mapped.

Basically, you create an object on the Lemur, assign it MIDI message (basically, a control change or note number and a channel), go to Live, hit command-M, click on any Live parameter and touch the Lemur. There you go.

it would be so easy for the lemur to have a midi configure mode where it only sends midi info for something when you are touching on the screen. apparently you have to do it through that jazz editor.

How exactly would you configure the range of notes sent by the Lemur without the jazzeditor ? I don't really get the mapping process you're describing.

is there any kind of auto map equivalent function for this lemur? does the mackie control emulation work well or even flawlessly?

For the moment, the Lemur is fully compatible with the Mackie Control protocol, meaning it is automatically mapped to VSTs, Instruments, and so on, when you select them. I have an interface on my Lemur that comprises a full Mackie emulation along with two Mackie XTs. The Lemur does everything the Mackie does, and way more since it's OSC compliant and comes with a powerful programming paradygm that lets you build interfaces that evolve with time (like step-sequencers) or user input.

I wonder how soon this version of lemur will be superceeded and what new features will appear in the next version.

Software upgrades are regularly released for the Lemur. Wait and see...

double post, sorry....

how do you feel about the sensors on the lemur, considering it would be a studio-only interface , are you confident your lemur's sensitivity will last say 10 years ?

I fear servicing this thing would be costly

just to make sure i understand, the lemur comes with a standard mackie control interface? or you can download one? so right out of the box (or thereabouts) you can use it like a control? my worry is that i don't want to spend years configuring it, setting it up to do what i can already do well. thx.

The Lemur comes with plenty of templates, the workshops gets frequent updates. There's also an online User Area where users can share their projects and modules (parts of projects that can be reimported in others, for instance a step sequencer module, or a tap tempo)

thx. the workshop looks very cool (as do the ways of controlling reaktor). as someone already asked, do you have any worries about durability? and do you now do simply magical things you couldn't with any other controller? or are you using it more as a standard controller, but one that works with a variety of apps?

I don't see durability as anymore an issue than other high-range controllers. It's quite sturdy and resists hits and spilled drinks.

It has set my controlling possibilities far beyond anything I've used before, so I'm more interested in developing complex new ways of interacting with pieces, not achievable with standard controllers. The Reaktor template to control a massive sequencer with morphable settings fits that category quite well.

axou wrote:It has set my controlling possibilities far beyond anything I've used before, so I'm more interested in developing complex new ways of interacting with pieces, not achievable with standard controllers.

That's the main point of the Lemur.
The mackie control instead is the perfect substitute for your mouse and keyboard, not just another midi controller.

on the lemur again .
-just to state, I'm not in anyway connected to jazzmutant - but probably jazzmutant should pay me for my volunteering... I just like their unit.
-as I also use it on stage, I'm happy that it is that small - but for my needs big enough, to see the most important things at once, but you can have serveral pages, btw. with the mackie control universal you have to switch fader banks as well
-you cannot create your own objects, there is a list of availble objects, which after some thinking is probably the way to go, as they have a size/behaviour which makes sense to use with fingers.
-to have ableton directly on a lemur like display is as stated not possible, for this kind of device there are probably only wacom cintiq displays, which as I remember have to be controlled by a pen (only one touch at once)
-if you want a plug and go solution and only need the mackies functionality then the original is probably a better choice.
-if you want a dynamic solution, which also works together with other kind of software and several networked computers, has other capabilities like physical behaviour of elements, and offers customisation..the lemur is not a bad choice. and I have to state, that I like their customer support and their constant improvement so far. release 1.5 was a big update which solved almost all of my wishes.

but hell yes, to have your own customized lemur interface gives you quite some work. on the other hand ... last week I incorported a korg padKontrol in my live-set and it took as well two days to programm all the basic scenes