Ableton Forum

heard that on the wire radio show Robert - very cool despite the copywright issues....

I wrote a web app a couple of years ago that does exactly what Bounce suggested. The company I wrote it for has now folded, so sadly I can't demo it for you.

The client had a stable of R&B acts and needed to get feedback from big label A&R men . The app gave each A&R man an account, the ability to view an Electronic Press Kit, listen to the tunes etc. It tracked their behaviour, timings and movements around the various artist details.
There was also a self-extending feedback form for the A&R men to add whatever input they felt like giving.

The 'promo is only online' has some major pitfalls of course, but I think this currently may be the only way to stop proliferation . Unless you go the DRM route - which comes with its own set of nasty pitfalls.



The only other (rather silly) method to catch the culprit is possible if you are only releasing to 20 people or less. Burn each copy separately, embed a specific noise very short noise in each copy at a certain time deep into the track. The noise correlates to the culprit.

I think in future we may need on-line compiling of a 'software' which embeds purchaser details into the resulting output at the point of purchase. So each item is distinct.
but perhaps that is too Orwellian

Angstrom wrote: ...

I think in future we may need on-line compiling of a 'software' which embeds purchaser details into the resulting output at the point of purchase. So each item is distinct.
but perhaps that is too Orwellian

The answer is Audio Watermarking. But it will cost some processingpower to do this.

I make records and I too found my LP on soulseek 3 weeks before release a couple of years back.

But hey that made me happy. People are checking my music, great. They want to buy it, they buy it, they want to hear it, they go on my website, on my label's website and hear it entirely if they want, or on soulseek. What's the difference ?

You're talking about loss of money Robert ?
The money is not in record sales anymore, you should know that.
you're famous enough to be on soulseek before the release, be thankful !
I'm sure lot of people here would love that.
People who download your track wouldn't necessarily buy them if they couldn't download them. You're just touching more people than you would otherwise.

You say you give promos away, so why do you care if people get your music without asking you first ? the result is the same.
Honestly I don't understand your point.

What bothers you is that it was on soulseek before the release ? and you wouldn't mind if it was after or what ?

I'm not PRO download through P2P but as long as it exists I'd rather be on it than not.

and how come you know you're on soulseek ???

Hi Chris J,
no, i do not talk about a loss of money, i even assume this gives extra publicity, I talk about ethics. If I give a journalist a product, something which has done with love and dedicaton, something in a package with an artwork and liner notes, I expect at least the most basic standarts of

RESPECT.

The journalist makes money writing about my music and he expects to get everything for free. All fine, we have a deal. Working against my intention as creator is not part of the deal it is a fuckin asshole behavoiour and completely unaccepteable.
And it helps exactly those promoting DRM. Do we really need this? Is this the way we need to go? How sad.

Robert


how i know about soulseek? because i got a mail from someone sending me the screenshots. i was not talking about people downloading. i was addressing specificly those who uploaded my work even prior the release date.

Chris J wrote:I make records and I too found my LP on soulseek 3 weeks before release a couple of years back.

But hey that made me happy. People are checking my music, great. They want to buy it, they buy it, they want to hear it, they go on my website, on my label's website and hear it entirely if they want, or on soulseek. What's the difference ?

You're talking about loss of money Robert ?
The money is not in record sales anymore, you should know that.
you're famous enough to be on soulseek before the release, be thankful !
I'm sure lot of people here would love that.
People who download your track wouldn't necessarily buy them if they couldn't download them. You're just touching more people than you would otherwise.

You say you give promos away, so why do you care if people get your music without asking you first ? the result is the same.
Honestly I don't understand your point.

What bothers you is that it was on soulseek before the release ? and you wouldn't mind if it was after or what ?

I'm not PRO download through P2P but as long as it exists I'd rather be on it than not.

and how come you know you're on soulseek ???

actually I tend to agree

I found one of my tracks on limewire - just because I was vain enough to type it into the search engine - and it actually showed up!!

I have to say I was much more happy that it was on there that disappointed to get ripped off

but I'm no one with only a couple of releases, maybe I'd feel different if I was regularly releasing stuff

Well, as I said before,
it is not the fact that the music is available, it is about the state of mind a journalist has to have to act so disrespectful. It`s plain wrong.

Robert

If I ever finish anything worth circulating I'll probably call it Harry Potter V and put it soulseek myself.

But I totally understand Robert's pov. I hate it when people betray a trust.

It's comforting to think that such people will eventually loose all their friends and end up lonely and embittered.

all of this is inevitable

Robert - Didn't you put file IDs on the songs you sent out and 'are working towards a resolution with legal consul?'

Send that out and make 'em think about it a while.

I'm with Chris J on this one.

I make records too. My first album in 1997: there was ONE DAT master, ONE backup, and ONE copy for the label. At the label's request there were no copies for nobody - none! Until the label's A&R decided that a DJ should have a copy to play it out, then there were quite a few copies flying around

This happened time and again and it drove me nuts for many years, & then one day just I let it go. Why fight what you can't change? Music goes where music wants to go!

People don't copy music because they want to put you out of business, they copy your music because they love your music and they want to listen to it!

They put your music on Soulseek because they're excited there's new stuff from you and they want other people to hear it too. Now that doesn't make you a cent, (doesn't make them a cent either by the way) or does it? People come to see you perform live and they might know your music from buying it... or downloading it... or both... who knows these things?

Life is not about holding on to things - it's about letting go!

Hi Robert...

that's is wrong oh yes

but on the other hand, i don't believe that all jounalists now are whatever you call them but it is happening every day that's a fact, and you can't stop it, i dont believe that, it is a leak/part of the free world of the internet.

But i guess that even Monolake, Live and i guess Ableton too, also have beenefits in the other end? I mean every body knows Live now a day's and that's not only from the commercial in magazins, but also from places like Soulseek, Bittorent, RapidShare..ect.

And, who knows, maybe this release will be the best sold one from Monolake?

We don't Know.... Wish you the best!


regards

PS you can't be sure who put it on Soulseek... someone might have had access to their music they might have lent it to a friend.... who knows???
Music has this weird way of getting out into the world. I can tell you're upset and I've been there but it's a waste of energy.

Can't change what you can't change. I don't think the solution is to give people copies with serial numbers or watermarks. Just........ let go... do your thing it will come back to you. It always has & always will!!!

And you rock the block!

None of you guys seems to run a label. None of you spends a huge amount of time and money to send out CDs and vinyl around the world to journalists.
Of course you can question if this is necessary anymore. But this is exactly what I did.
I did not say fuck you file sharing assholes, i said: hey journalist you betrayal me and this makes me upset and i will react. I do not want to send you my music with a nice and expensive packaging month before anyone else gets it, put you and all your lovely friends on every guest list, and then you sell my CD on ebay, resell it to the next record store, or uplaod it without the liner notes. This is disrespectful. This is not how i want you to treat me. You WORK in the music industrie too, and you work against me.

Robert

jackmazzotti wrote:all of this is inevitable

i agree. this isn't about specifics or roberts isolated case. in general there will always be disrespectful people who abuse your trust.

i say learn from them, make adjustments and don't let it ruin your day.