Reason drum kits in Live?

[kettensaege]

Can anyone maybe recommend me some good drum sample disks to look at? And also some plug-in drum solutions other than Battery? I have been told that the Luxonix drum sampler thingy is good, but i don't know of many others.

Take a look at Toontracks Drumkit From Hell (comes in AKAI, EXS, Giga flavors, amongst others, and should be usable in Lives Sampler), Drumkit From Hell Superior (40GB Library and dedicated Plugin) and EZDrummer (plugin, IIRC about 5GB Samples, 8000 Midi Files).
Native Instruments Studio Drums and Yellow Tools Pure Drums are supposed to be good as well.

[Bonescan]

Take a look at Toontracks Drumkit From Hell (comes in AKAI, EXS, Giga flavors, amongst others, and should be usable in Lives Sampler), Drumkit From Hell Superior (40GB Library and dedicated Plugin) and EZDrummer (plugin, IIRC about 5GB Samples, 8000 Midi Files).
Native Instruments Studio Drums and Yellow Tools Pure Drums are supposed to be good as well.

Holy crap, just taken a look at the DFH and EZDrummer sites, those look great, they could be exactly what i am looking for.

Thanks for the heads up!

[xzusa8ky]

Don't listen to Mr Clever Hoffmann!

Maybe he write all day, oh ya! but i dont think he do produce that much music? and when should he? he is posting, posting, posting? and now he talking/writing to much again! and what he tells you is also bullshit, that's to much for me!

Sorry Hoffmann before you post more posts you should know what you are talking about, otherwise keep you fingers from the keyboard, you are turning people here into bloody amateures and idiots and we are not!

And now to you question Bonescan!

Yes, it is possible to open a refill without Reason! You need the application "refillviewer" Pc only, with that you can copy all the files from your Refills! and use them in Live or any other sequencer.

And it is crap to tell people that Reason would be outdated?

If you know what you are doing Reason Kicks Ass!

Live 6 + Reason 3 really rock's and do Sound Nice too!

Hoffmann don't know what's he's talking about!

He is outdated, and we should Bounce Him!

I do wish that some people here on this board would produce more than writting amateure posting all day long!

it's not about posts!

it's about Producing...

Kind Regards

[mercyplease]

No can do. Refills cant be opened. And even if you find a way to open them, it's illegal to do so.

Never buy too many refills. As soon as you get tired of reason, they're useless

Oh te feck with yer PC correct shite Hoffman. What the hell are you, a fucking music policeman or something.

Never buy too many refills. As soon as you get tired of reason, they're useless

same can be said for Live. Never buy to many ableton soft synths. As soon as you get bored of live thier useless you end up just bundling them in with the software.

or five years from now and 1500 of ableton extra cost synths

FOR SALE
Ableton live includes Operator-sampler-Robominder-cheesemaker-silentoperator. Total cost 1800 sell for 300.

try selling your operator sampler and live to someone that doesnt need them.

[mercyplease]

To answer the poster its unfortunate that you have to use reason to access the samples and ones you like would need to be bounced down as audio files. or you can pick a crack of reason, copy the software and bobs your uncle.

[noisetonepause]

Closed formats that can only be used with one application which is controlled by one company are a very, very bad thing for users. It leads to vendor lock-in, which will leave you shit out of luck if the company goes bust or you upgrade/crossgrade to a different computer platform on which their software does not run. I'm guessing most of Live's users came from a different sequencer - all that great music you made that's saved in Logic or Cubase or whatever format is basically useless after you sell that software. Sure, you can dig out MIDI files and audio files, but your effects settings and your mix? They're lost.

This goes for Live's song formats and proprietary instruments as well (which is why I often argue that Live should open up and document its instrument format and make it possible for others to write hosts for it), not to mention MS Word documents etc. I've got stuff I wrote in MS Word for Macintosh 10-15 years ago that can't be opened anymore (well, it comes up as a garbled mess with a lot of the formatting visible and special Danish characters messed up, etc.). They're not important documents by any stretch of the imagination, but I like to think that some of the stuff I'm writing now is, and if I didn't know better I might be keeping them in a format that I will be unable to access in 10 years. NASA and others are having huge problems with this, and I think we as users need to pressure companies to open up and document their file formats in the event that they go out of business, discontinue products, or are left in the dust by a competitor.

It's obviously not something they want (note that last item on my list of reasons), but it is quite important for us if you think about it.

What if Live sees a major overhaul and I suddenly can't open songs I made in Live 3? I don't have access to Live 3 anymore, and for all I know I might not have a computer that will run Live 3 in a few years...

Love,
-Paws

[theshaggyfreak]

Technology will not always be backwards compatible as that is the nature of the beast. Eventually the technology moves beyond what is obsolete. That's why I always keep older copies of everything just in case. A lot of the software made today has gotten a little more efficient with such things but there will always come a time where something will no longer work.

In many cases the refill (ando ther proprietary formats) format protects the maker of the samples a little. It helps keeps others from trying to sell a sample set as their own work. Some formats are open, though, and legal converters are sold. I own Extreme Sample Converter for that purpose.

I enjoy Reason and I've been using it for quite some time. It's probably one of the most stable applications I have to date and I believe much of that is due to it's closed system.

[hoffman2k]

Sorry Hoffmann before you post more posts you should know what you are talking about, otherwise keep you fingers from the keyboard, you are turning people here into bloody amateures and idiots and we are not!

Never said reason was bad. Just said that refills suck.

Before you blame somebody of posting all day, read their posts

[hoffman2k]

FOR SALE
Ableton live includes Operator-sampler-Robominder-cheesemaker-silentoperator. Total cost 1800 sell for 300.

try selling your operator sampler and live to someone that doesnt need them.

Yep or logic synths or soundboards for synths or......
Same goes for many things in life.

But at least you can use wav/aiff files in any host

[Poster]

so funny to see that ppl don't READ..
hoffman2k never said that reason sucks,
it's just the refill format that sucks..

I started to make music reason as well; I love it..
but at a certain moment I reached ceiling with it and switched to Live..

So I have these refills, and I don't want to use them in reason but in Live because Live can do whole other things with audio..
But you bloody well paid for it!!
How the f. am I gonna use them in Live without rewiring?

You see; that's why refills suck..
they become obsolete once you switch or want to use them in other ways..

Face it ppl; refills are outdated..
If you have the option to buy an open library or a refill.. well.. think again..

But if ppl have other, positive ideas about refills,
please let us all know..

- HD space saver? No.. (HD's come cheap these days)
- Nicely organised? No.. (take it as it comes)
- Useful for transporting/sharing tunes? No.. (use 2 small samples, bring the whole 500MB)
- External editing? No.. (first bounce, then edit, then re-import)
- No.. (Yes)

Viva reason!
Dump refills!

[kettensaege]

so funny to see that ppl don't READ..
hoffman2k never said that reason sucks,
it's just the refill format that sucks..

I started to make music reason as well; I love it..
but at a certain moment I reached ceiling with it and switched to Live..

So I have these refills, and I don't want to use them in reason but in Live because Live can do whole other things with audio..
But you bloody well paid for it!!
How the f. am I gonna use them in Live without rewiring?

You see; that's why refills suck..
they become obsolete once you switch or want to use them in other ways..

Face it ppl; refills are outdated..
If you have the option to buy an open library or a refill.. well.. think again..

But if ppl have other, positive ideas about refills,
please let us all know..

- HD space saver? No.. (HD's come cheap these days)
- Nicely organised? No.. (take it as it comes)
- Useful for transporting/sharing tunes? No.. (use 2 small samples, bring the whole 500MB)
- External editing? No.. (first bounce, then edit, then re-import)
- No.. (Yes)

Viva reason!
Dump refills!

Using the exact same arguments I guess you could say that some sampler plugins are obsolete because they use proprietary, closed formats (encrypted nki files?) as well as closed source synth plugins, because as soon as a major shift happens (OS change, architecture change ... ask the Mac people) your plugs will be non-functional unless you can get the manufacturer or someone else to recompile it for the new target. Waldorf anyone? Sometimes I find that more unsettling than spending 100EUR on a refill I really like and then being "locked" into Reason.

I bought Reason specifically to use it as a sound module in conjunction with Live. I never even touched the sequencer. NN-XT lets me import my AKAI drum kits and sample CDs, I can save a song and use it as an easily transportable drum submix. When Propellerheads Reason Drum Kits Refill came out I gladly paid the money to get a few good kits.
It all depends on the use case, I guess, no need to get so emotional about refills

[Poster]

Using the exact same arguments I guess you could say that some sampler plugins are obsolete because they use proprietary, closed formats (encrypted nki files?) as well as closed source synth plugins, because as soon as a major shift happens (OS change, architecture change ... ask the Mac people) your plugs will be non-functional unless you can get the manufacturer or someone else to recompile it for the new target. Waldorf anyone? Sometimes I find that more unsettling than spending 100EUR on a refill I really like and then being "locked" into Reason.

- yes, there are closed samplers (romplers), but they will work in multiple hosts..
so no, not the same argument..

- you can't compare software with samples.. apples and oranges..
when plugins become 'obsolete' due to OS updates, the plugin will be updated as well..
Samples will never be obsolete cause you can always convert them yourself to 'the format of the day'.. 10/20/100 years from now I can still use these samples..


The thing is;
the refill format was/is a sort of industry agreement between Propheads and sample library manufacturers..
Because reason documents can contain samples, people worried about that these samples could be carried from one computer to another.. (legal issues)..
The Propheads sold the idea with arguments as 'comfortable, space saving and easy to use'..
But the real issue was/is that it's all about agreements with the industry and not so much about their selling points..
(the same agreement apple has concerning the iPod; you can only copy mp3's to the iPod, not from the iPod to the computer)

At that time we all had 14k modems, so sharing reason documents was about the only way ppl could accidentilly 'share' samples..
These are the DSL days.. now the whole refill can be shared troughout the welknown networks.. there goes the copy protection..

So; why would you keep this oldfashioned format called refill that has become pretty obsolete, given the reasons why it was thought of in the first place..

It feels like buying a new car but the manufacturer wants only me to drive it..

I'am not saying refill are a bad thing by default,
but if you have the choise between 2 formats of the same library,
you would be nuts to buy the refill..
Especially for the people on this forum because you obviously also use Live..

[kettensaege]

<snip>
- yes, there are closed samplers (romplers), but they will work in multiple hosts..
so no, not the same argument..

- you can't compare software with samples.. apples and oranges..
when plugins become 'obsolete' due to OS updates, the plugin will be updated as well..
Samples will never be obsolete cause you can always convert them yourself to 'the format of the day'.. 10/20/100 years from now I can still use these samples..

<snip>

I'am not saying refill are a bad thing by default,
but if you have the choise between 2 formats of the same library,
you would be nuts to buy the refill..
Especially for the people on this forum because you obviously also use Live..

I could go on about plugins that never were updated because of various reasons and how Reason works inside other hosts as well via Rewire, but I get your point. And you're definitely right about the alternatives: get an open format if you've got the choice.