making wet metal sounds?

Josh Von · Post by **Josh Von** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:42 pm

Nice thread, following this closely

Johns' Murph rack isnt bad but isnt quite the same. Im thinking Ohmboys Quadfromage might have something, i'll play around with that and see
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petit nuage · Post by **petit nuage** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:11 pm

very interesting thread !!

i really like tta's music !

i think they use reaktor 3 and pro tools for this song ..(2001)

their audio 's programming technique is wicked !..very detailed !

but for this kind of texture,maybe look at reaktor 3 ensembles ..

im very curious about this technique too ...

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:57 pm

I've just recently got Sampler, and you can get some nice results using it. EdIT is using samplers (hardware) as you can see in the studio pic on one of the previous pages.

If you set the loop to a relatively small amount, with Sample End quite far away, then modulate Loop start and Loop length using LFOs you can get some of the scanning/glitchy sounds.

I suppose this is similar to granular synthesis, which is i'm guessing how some of the sounds Telefon Tel Aviv use are made (probably some Reaktor ensemble, but you can do it in anything).

glitchhophead · Post by **glitchhophead** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:22 pm

Hey fatrabbit thanks for posting that picture thats pretty wicked. I know hes (edIT) pretty into Max/Msp as well.

Quote: When I perform live I use a custom MAX/MSP patch I built called the "Crunkmaster 2000". It's essentially a custom DJ patch I made that has custom FX, VST plugin support and expandability. When I perform live I usually just throw down the rockin' dancefloor set of all my original tunes and a few jiggafried hip-hop mashups for the ladies. It's not rocket science. I'm not up there trying to prove I'm a genious with my software. I spend so much time in the studio crafting my music, that when I play live I really just want to bring those exact tracks to the dancefloor. And I do exactly that, Drop the sirens on that ass.

I want a Crunkmaster but MAX is too steep a learning curve for now..........

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:28 pm

glitchhophead wrote:Hey fatrabbit thanks for posting that picture thats pretty wicked. I know hes (edIT) pretty into Max/Msp as well.

Quote: When I perform live I use a custom MAX/MSP patch I built called the "Crunkmaster 2000". It's essentially a custom DJ patch I made that has custom FX, VST plugin support and expandability. When I perform live I usually just throw down the rockin' dancefloor set of all my original tunes and a few jiggafried hip-hop mashups for the ladies. It's not rocket science. I'm not up there trying to prove I'm a genious with my software. I spend so much time in the studio crafting my music, that when I play live I really just want to bring those exact tracks to the dancefloor. And I do exactly that, Drop the sirens on that ass.

I want a Crunkmaster but MAX is too steep a learning curve for now..........

So do you mind expanding on what techniques you are using? I kinda struggle with the glitchy sounds, as i'm not used to making those - any tips on generating sounds like edIT? 'Crying Over Pros....' is one of my favourite albums from the last few years.

EDIT: Here's a couple screens to show what I was describing in my post above:

Sample Window

Modulation

glitchhophead · Post by **glitchhophead** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:49 pm

Thats one of my favs as well. I've seen him a couple times with OOAH,who is also the man (They call him the Mobb Boss of the Glitch Mob) What software/pluggins do you use? (Besides Live of course!)

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:03 pm

glitchhophead wrote:Thats one of my favs as well. I've seen him a couple times with OOAH,who is also the man (They call him the Mobb Boss of the Glitch Mob) What software/pluggins do you use? (Besides Live of course!)

Well I was trying to get some similar sounds using native Live plugins/instruments as much as possible, as well as editing techniques.

I also use Reaktor to some extent - some of the grooveboxes are really good. I have used Max/MSP a couple times, although I don't own it or have it on my machine (but will have to use it for my uni course next semester I believe). In addition to other NI software, and some effects like the Audio Damage ones.

I guess i'm wondering how you generate the glitchyness? For example, getting decent harmonic content to mangle with in Sampler, or getting already-glitchy samples to go in Sampler?

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:38 pm

i have got some sounds similiar to this with Discovery plus some extra mangling
filter modulation and lots of modulating filters
try using lots of copies of the same sound on several channels and eq them so that only tiny slices of the spectrum are coming through on each track and then start doing all your delays and fx chains... some of it is just luck and experimentation
i try to make sure i save my fx groups now even if i dont keep the set i create them in
it helps to make it all into audio and just mangle it senseless...

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:56 pm

Spiralgroove wrote:i have got some sounds similiar to this with Discovery plus some extra mangling
filter modulation and lots of modulating filters
try using lots of copies of the same sound on several channels and eq them so that only tiny slices of the spectrum are coming through on each track and then start doing all your delays and fx chains... some of it is just luck and experimentation
i try to make sure i save my fx groups now even if i dont keep the set i create them in
it helps to make it all into audio and just mangle it senseless...

Cheers for the tip, but what's Discovery?

Spiralgroove · Post by **Spiralgroove** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:00 pm

oh sorry, disco dsp discovery, its a vsti similiar to a nord

glitchhophead · Post by **glitchhophead** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:31 pm

As far as myself I'm still learning as well. Ive been playing guitar for about 10yrs and finally wanted to just make ALL of my music myself instead of struggling to keep a band together. I had NO IDEA how deep the rabbithole (no pun intended) went! Producing is so painstaking yet so much more rewarding than I ever imagined..and I've been addicted to LIVE for about 6 months now.

A few things that you might already know: (I'm still pretty newbie)

1.IZOTOPE SPECTRON. I read on this forum somewhere that TTV is into their plugs and I can see why. I've gotten some good results just setting up simple fx chains AFTER it like a Flanger (metallic), maybe Redux, Auto Pan, and a Beat Repeat (vocal fun). I think that VOCALS and DRUMS sound best glitched out. If I send it just through a vocal or drum track every few bars and back and forth I can get some good sounds that are always changing yet stay musical thanks to LIVE.

2. I know you've heard it before but DblueGLITCH really is amazing. I have g4 PB AND a PC and its the only plug I would consider staying with PC for. If I get the new MBP I'm definitely gonna need Bootcamp. I've tried the Glitch racks on here and no disrespect to the creators (its more than I could come up with) but they dont really compare. Theres no replacement for it. I put it in front of my FX chain instead of Spectron a lot and its pretty nasty. Also you can put it on the master track with a full song done, with some other effects, set up an audio track with the AUDIO FROM the master into some clips for use in the song or record into the Arrangement view for as long as you want and go through edit what you want to keep.

3. For Ableton only action if you havent tried it yet....(I'm a preset whore) The Stereo Beat Cutter in the presets is really nice...throw some Flange,Redux,Auto Pan,etc... BEFORE it...pretty nice.

4. REAKTOR.

5. Less is more. It holds true for every genre. Glitch is no exception. WHEN is sometimes more important than HOW.

6. We have to do our time. Theres no plug in or fx chain that can substitute for hundreds of hours in front of the CPU. Many of the people who are producing this music have been cutting their teeth for years with Sound Design.

7. Theres so many ways to get that sound from doing it all by hand, circuit bending instruments, using combinations of pluggs, Max/Msp, that its best to try all of them to see which one suits you best.

Hope that helps.........

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:04 am

Nice... thanks for that list.

I actually use a lot of the things you mention already, but not in a way that I am happy with (yet!).

I've done a bit of circuit bending for instance - acidental discoveries you can make are amazing. I know some people who say circuit bending is a waste of time, but they can't see the potential it can have for sound design if you totally f**k the sounds up within Sampler for example!

dBlue Glitch is brilliant, and it's one of the only things I miss from PC. However, rather than get Bootcamp I may use Parallels for my MBP (there's a video on YouTube) so you can boot Windows from inside OS X and quickly switch (to do quick cutups using dBlue Glitch) between OSs. I haven't tried this yet, as i'm wary of Windows on my shiny new machine (viruses, that sort of thing).

I totally appreciate that you have to put the hours in, and there is no magic solution, but I wondered what techniques people use that take a long while.
For instance, I messed with Pro Tools, used the Apple sounds included with OS X and mangled them over and over again (slow, speeding up, pitch shifting) using the Time Shift and Pitch Shift plugs within the program and got some nice results after cutting it up and sequencing it all. I'd rather not use Pro Tools, as I prefer Live however, and am working on similar solutions within Live. I think the Stereo Beat Cutter preset you mention uses a Beat Repeat and an Autopan for some nice glitchness!

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:29 pm

Spiralgroove wrote:i have got some sounds similiar to this with Discovery plus some extra mangling
filter modulation and lots of modulating filters
try using lots of copies of the same sound on several channels and eq them so that only tiny slices of the spectrum are coming through on each track and then start doing all your delays and fx chains... some of it is just luck and experimentation
i try to make sure i save my fx groups now even if i dont keep the set i create them in
it helps to make it all into audio and just mangle it senseless...

Rather than have lots of channels, it's probably easier to make a rack with chains that specific EQ bands on them and then place the effects you want on each chain.

Generally i've had some success making metallic glitchy sounds over the last few days, with various techniques.

For example, taking a snare sample onto the Arrangement view, zooming in real close and using Cmd + E to chop it to pieces, move them around, time stretch various bits (using the +2 and -2 buttons), consolidate (Cmd + J) then time strecth the whole thing. And repeat. Then apply specific frequency effects as stated above using a rack.

It probably helps to start with harsh, metallic sounds to begin with (although you could probably alter most sounds to be similar) - such as mechanical or breaking sounds as recorded from the real world.

----------

Also, use the Resampling option in the Audio In portion of a track (to record the Master output onto a track, but choose which elements you want to be heard first). Then totally mangle it up using clip envelopes (modifying FX, Sample Offset, Transposition, Volume etc.). For best results, you really have to consider where and what you want to achieve using this method (although you do get nice suprises from accidents) - but I try and make it musical.

Josh Von · Post by **Josh Von** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:19 am

Ohmboys Quadfromage has a bank called "lp-filtering.pbk" with Preset 8 "reson". This gives a good way to get the wet metal sound.

Ive been experimenting with running HiHat loops thru an audio channel, then pulling the audio from that channel into a new audio channel with the Quadfromage preset processing the sound, then using the fader on that channel to mix the wet/dry balance.

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adhmzaiusz · Post by **adhmzaiusz** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:31 pm

i'd definetly suggest all those sounds are reaktor, i've heard those blips froms ensembles specifically like from 'the dansant', and the bitcrush sounds you can hear in some tta songs sound just like the bitcrush from gobox.