Ableton Forum

knotkranky wrote:Pro Tools HD. Tons of horsepower. World class mixing and recording platform. Midi is better than people thing and it's way tight.

Isn't that the least user friendly of them all?
- mac only
- hard to learn
- expensive


Prior to selling my soul to Live I'd only ever REALLY used Sonar, Acid and hardware sequencers. Live's ability to create loops and scenes blew my mind, it was never so easy for me to make tunes.

Easier the Logic for sure but I don't know enough about sx.

They have it for pc too, but that's all I know about that.

HD is very expensive yes. But it's worth it in my book. Iv'e got 50 track mixes with countless dbl precision plugs. Not even a whimper. I have HD3.

I gave an m-box and LE to my 13 year nephew last year. He's recording his second record on it and his 16 year old bro is mixing it. Pro Tools is freakin easy.

I can give a toss about digi. I have never called support in the last 5 years.

yeah man, an HD system is definitely the best way to go if you want a glorified tape machine. Tons of juice, great sounding interface.


And PT really is an amazing program for mixing and editing audio. For one thing no other program handles mix and edit groups in such a fast efficient way.


but on the other hand, if you're trying to compose music rather than mix together files of performances, PT is a clunker... I don't think anyone would deny that.



.lm.

I deny it 100% without hesitation.

sorry, but just about every other app in the universe is more suited to actually composing music.



tracking, mixing and arranging is where PT excels.



.lm.

I like arrangement in Cubase (Yeah sad but true).
Problem is find it so boring since getting really into Live (Started using Live at V.3)
I can play about all day in session but come arrangement time its different.
I don't like ProTools LE very much but have never used HD (Probably never will either).
I'm from Cubase so its probably cause I came up on it, that I think this way. I used to use that when I used more midi hardware audio etc and am comfortable.
Personally I think its all just personal preference, there are a lot of DAWs which have all the features you need to make music. EnergyXT looks nice 2 me, got its own thing going on.
Live is fun, my favorite for a number of reasons and I'm happy. Gonna continue using Cubase ( 4 Arrangement) with Live as soon as Rewire works again OSX.
I'm done now with searching for new tools, got everything I need.
Is there a winner ? Depends, its all relative...who are you and what do you (wanna) do.
Thanks.

SubFunk wrote:leedsquietman asked:

So why do you bother using Live at all if Logic is so superior....

cause they are a different pair of shoes [live and logic] logic is not in every aspect superior, it depends on what you need and how do like to work.

live is superior for jamming, writing, dj-ing, live performance, that doesn't mean that you can't acomplish all other needs like production and recording as well with live, but in that department are many other apps like logic, etc. stronger [next to several other differences i don't want all to mention in detail, at this point]

and one thing is for shure as good as live is even live6 with dual prozessor support, logic gives you way, way more milage out of whatever mac you are running.

both feed different needs, even both can handle as well many many tasks the more or less same way.

i also use both logic and live depending on what i do.
i do in the moment a full production for a funkband [funkdamental], be shure i don't do this kind of work in live, for example.

but for loads other stuff [as mentioned above] i prefer live, by far.

Good points, I second all of the above. Logic Pro is a fantastic environment to work with, but sometimes you don't need a whole environment, just a sketch pad. Live is very fast and to the point, but Logic is much deeper, particularly with midi.

great posts, all. thank you.

i will explore Logic and Digital Performer, see what I like. (but first get a new mactop)

It's true that Cubase SX 3 and below have poorer performance on Macs than Mac optimized programs like Logic and DP but the new Cubase 4 is Universal Binary and utilizes multi-processor support etc and is optimized a lot better for Intel Macs. It might not be as efficient as Logic, seeing as Apple own Logic and only want Logic to be used (Garageband excepted).

For windows this is a good comparison...
http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/shoot ... ummary.htm

Note the poor features and performance of PT. Now I am not comparing this against a PT HD pro studio setup on TDM but LE and M-Powered not only look old hat, they are just blah. This is coming from a Cubase SX3 user - yup, Steinberg don't design interesting products either but heck, digi haven't done a whole lot with PT for 8 years, except bundle a couple of new plugins and change dull grey to slightly less dark dull grey. The best thing you can say about PT is it handles audio well and your tracks can be imported into PT HD. MIDI totally blows on it for anything except a very basic record and edit, uses stupid rtas format plugins which are not widely supported hence cost more, ties you to specific hardware, which isn't even that great, etc, etc.

Live is where the fun is at and can do a lot but I accept the limitations as mentioned by the Logic fans. Rewire can be your God. But seriously, Live can do a lot more a lot better than people credit it with. Although it's Arrangement view is not as flexible and functional as some other DAWS, it's the Session view which makes it tick...

You could buy Nuendo or Sequoia (excellent top end daws with post production / tv/ dvd/ surround editing as well as regular audio and midi), an amazing audio interface and have money left over for top class pres/mics/mixing consoles and a vacation in the caribbean with top class totty dropping by for a night in your Dom perignon filled jacuzzi for the price of PT HD. The fact it is industry standard comes from apathy and fear of change as much as anything else, everyone has it so no-one wants to break the chains. It can do basic things relatively well but really, it's like driving a battered 5th hand rusting old Honda Civic around when you could be in a brand new, chaffeur driven limo.

You can get used to Live's arrangement view very easily. When I use Live as a DAW I only use the arrangement view, I don't start in session view at all. Also Live will handle more plug-ins that Logic because of the irritating (but maybe necessary?) audio unit validator. At the moment I have gone back to Logic again, mainly because I am given tracks to mix by DJs as complete Logic songs.
Regarding Pro Tools, I'm composing library tracks with a colleague at the moment, and he is mixing them on PT. I play my tracks in Logic and when they are transfered to PT there is a noticiable improvement in sound quality for some reason. This is through the same desk, monitors etc. Another colleague thinks its the PT converters that accounts for the improvement in sound quality.

My answer to the posts question is, theres no winner only the user.

Tone Deft wrote:

knotkranky wrote:Pro Tools HD. Tons of horsepower. World class mixing and recording platform. Midi is better than people thing and it's way tight.

Isn't that the least user friendly of them all?
- mac only
- hard to learn
- expensive

Prior to selling my soul to Live I'd only ever REALLY used Sonar, Acid and hardware sequencers. Live's ability to create loops and scenes blew my mind, it was never so easy for me to make tunes.

you see how different an approach can be, to me those points are a pure sign of quality and professionalism.

And the winner is........My arsehole!.......oh thank you thank you i cant believe it.