Abeton can invest in a New York Office but no subgroups

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:44 am

Wow good to see that there is still plenty of closed minded folks of all ages and even in the "artistic" comunity.

Mercy if you are so pissed off then just vote with your cash and use a crack and then you where never need to complain here again.

mercyplease wrote:
fatrabbit wrote:It's not a company, it's my personal work from several years ago for a project at school.

Nice to see you reverting to homophobic slurs too.
homophobic whats that?
is that when another man puts his penis in another mans arse. I dont know about you but theres something not quite right about two blokes sticking their dick in each others arses. Thats where our waste products come out just doesnt seem right to me. men are dirty bastards and I know were not getting enemas everyday so its pretty obvious there truly is brown love in abundance.

Now two lezzers thats a different story
(not the fat skin head militant ones)

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:12 am

Setting aside mercyplease's passionate delivery i understand some of the meaning. I started a thread last year bashing abes for some of their misleading feature quotes and problems with 5. I got hammered by what seemed to be everybody but I was only trying to get to abes and get a few on my bandwagon.

It's important to remember that companies don't respond to positive reinforcement too well. In fact, they will cash in on it the easiest way possible. It's actually their duty. Abes and investors will respond best to complaints. It's a fact of business life.

I am no rah rah for any company that has about $1,200 of my dollars. I am no fan of abes though I've used live since v1 and like writing with it, but this was after me trying 5 as a new daw solution that didn't work out at all. In the long run, they have been seriously ignoring requests in the most basic of features.

Bankers, investors and marketers run abes. Period. What some of us are experiencing are their priorities.

A forum full of complaints will get their attention best. Bad press always does and this is our forum not theirs. I sure would like to see this great program grow up a little faster.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:22 am

Isn't it all relative?

I got the features, you didn't.

You're pissed because they implemented shit that isn't on your list.
Guess how i felt when they added mp3

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:00 am

mercyplease wrote:homophobic whats that?
is that when another man puts his penis in another mans arse.

Sorry but thats too funny.
Anyway I agree with mercyplease on this one somewhat. I was thinkin exactly the same thing re: holding back on certain features so they can sell another update without having to bother too much. I also agree with knotkranky totally. I hope ableton don't sell their souls (Not all of them) cause I really love alot about Live. I also love this forum, cause it makes me laugh so much and there are plenty of good people on here too.
I think there is a brown nose culture of people who play ableton (Can't make decent tunes for shi* cause thats not what they are into obviously. Check out the Link your music and you'll see what I mean. Its like back in the day people who were into music made music. Now everything is so accessible and everyone is doing it. Get a dnb record, rip the break, rip the bass, rip a seq and melody, throw it all together badly and add salt to taste), they are quick to pounce on people who have an opinion that goes against their gang-licking of the abletonian asshole. But they know fuc* all anyway so who gives a shi* really ? Not me.
Feature wishlist : Listen to the people who really use the program and add some of the features that would benefit them (I know you do listen but Live is missing some standard basic shi*). Do NOT add gimmicks like video before you can group tracks or love the arrangement view and ps ... tell the brown-nosers to get off your ass its disgusting. Also tell them that their tunes are shi* and they should just give up and fuc* off.

Bye Bye.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:45 pm

kineticUk wrote:
mercyplease wrote:homophobic whats that?
is that when another man puts his penis in another mans arse.
Sorry but thats too funny.
Anyway I agree with mercyplease on this one somewhat. I was thinkin exactly the same thing re: holding back on certain features so they can sell another update without having to bother too much.

As a dev, I must point some things out:

When a software product gains enough momentum, people shift from expecting innovation to exepcting stability.

If you focus on delivering more features, you do so at the risk of de-stabilizing your existing codebase. And then, people bitch and moan about problems caused by them.

If you don't, people will complain about lack of new features, and having to basically pay a yearly "tax" to be able to use the software.

The bottom line is, don't expect each version of live to be completely revolutionary. A good portion of the changes between versions are bugfixes, and although many of them may not apply directly to you, read the changelogs and see what's new. Otherwise, don't pay for the upgrade, and don't complain.

I find it funny that in some software communities, there is a much greater anti-upgrade culture. Logic users are a prime example of this... I know of dozens of people who are willingly "stuck" with Logic 5 or 6 installations, and have no plans to buy 7. Most of them are still producing music with these setups and see simply no reason to upgrade.

But either way, don't criticize the company for expanding. The new office will help ableton grow, and thereby improve the overall product quality in years to come.

However, it probably won't help you mix better... but then again, I'm not sure what might.

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:49 pm

It's called capitalism, I believe.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:26 pm

sqook were u speaking to me ? I am confused cause you quoted me but talked about something else ... anyway about the things you talked about.

My thoughts :

On expecting stability - Good if thats what we get but with ableton its a new version and new bugs (ie some old ones fixed and a whole new load of problems eg rounding errors in version 6 all over the place. Rewire no longer works nice on OSX. No joy. Arrangement problems same. etc). So I dunno but it doesn't seem to make sense that I've paid for stability cause its the same old same old innit. Nice thought "stability/bug fix" but I don't buy that.

On New Features - Well we all know features sell the update or else who's gonna update and how will you market it ? The point I tried to make was which features should be added first ie not useless fuc*in' video support (Gimmick = Sellout). Useful DAW stuff like the ability to group tracks, proper arrangement improvements, the simple obvious DAW shi* thats lacking etc. Arrangement is rubbish and needs to be sorted sooner rather than later. Give us some tools and make it quicker and easier to do proper edits there. Also fix the audio problems we have been moaning about now for numerous versions. Live is weak when it comes to normal playback bits of audio when cut up (Consolidate = no good)

On the bottom line - I don't expect revolution nor do most of us. I am a happy Live user generally (Although I would like DAW simple stuff not gimmicks). I am not stupid and also not blind. There is a community set up which I am part of and if I want to say something about Live (Complaint or Praise) I will do so. Thats the way the world turns. No brown-nose here and no BS.

So basically ableton isn't our mate ( as much as everyone would like to think they are ) its a company, a good one but its business...bottom line. They make the app I choose to use for making music which isn't perfect yet and so we'll keep telling them about it until it is (In the hope that I can ditch everything else and use only ableton in the future cause I would like that a lot). They have a forum where you can talk about it. And we are all free to complain if we want to (I'll do that if I feel the need) even if we are customers ie we have bought the program or update ... again.

Oh and my mixing is sweet but thanks for asking.

Have a nice day, bye bye.

minimal · Post by **minimal** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:29 pm

I guess the point is how to ask things, there are so many way to ask the same thing, and some ways give you more chances to be heard and taken seriously.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:08 pm

well, i guess folks are going to keep replying to this horseshit so i guess i'll chime in too.

The funniest thing about this thread is that we actually do have subgroups. You can route any number of tracks to a subgroup. What we are missing is the ability to hide the tracks feeding the subgroup and the ability to solo isolate the subgroup. All things that have been asked for and that i have faith that we will recieve. So first of all, clarify what you're asking for, and ask in a professional manner. don't go trolling for flames on the forum and act all innocent afterwards.

the features for every update have come straight off the feature wishlist forum.

every feature wished for simply can't be included in one update. It's just not possible.

no one on this forum is going to "jump all over" someone who calmly and reasonably asks for a feature request. And if i'm going to be labeled as a "brown noser" for not tolarating obnoxious behavior, so be it. Think what you want.

fucking whingers. whinging and whining....

.lm.

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:32 pm

it is a fairly basic feature, i mean how long have you been able to subgroup stuff, since v1? And they never thought about putting some kind of group solo in there? It surely cannot be that hard to implement, you presumably wouldnt need to change very much of the program for it.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:49 pm

I sure would like to have a more orderly thread to complain on. Admittedly, my last year bitch post was ott only because i couldn't get anyone to join me, lol. This thread isn't the one to do it on either. hoffman2k is completely correct, this is what happens when software trys to be all things to all people. But,

There are two abes: 1. developers, coders, engineers and us bug fixers and we love em. 2. Bankers, investors, marketers and no love there at all. When I bitch, it's completely at #2.

Like I said before this isn't the thread to debate this further. Besides, I've down graded what Live does for me. I'm happy with it being a writing tool only. So no more anger here. But Abes brass needs to stop cutting the margin so thin. It's getting obvious

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:51 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:no one on this forum is going to "jump all over" someone who calmly and reasonably asks for a feature request.

I dunno about that but I've seen them "jump all over" people who report bugs, the stupid fuc*'s that they are. You won't lm, but I've seen others do that before during the Live 5 fiasco. Some div thinks if you post in the feature wishlist it means you don't like Live ? Same sort of shi* too.

leisuremuffin wrote:And if i'm going to be labeled as a "brown noser" for not tolarating obnoxious behavior, so be it. Think what you want.

You won't be labelled a brown noser for that. I think its those who have their untalented empty shell of a headpiece rammed so far up ableton's asshole they talk constant shi*. They know who they are. Thats an opinion though so disagree, its only mine.

leisuremuffin wrote:fucking whingers. whinging and whining....

whinging and whining its not good. Constructive criticisms, or others sharing ideas about what they like/dislike? I do not think they should be put off speaking their minds.
Bottom line is we all use Live in our own productions whatever they may be, cross countries, styles, etc etc. Feedback is good (For ableton, and us all...think bugs I'll miss cause I work my way) and if some people don't like the style/language others reporting ... tough. As long as there is meaning they have every right to post their views.

Got drawn into this and OT too. Think whatever you like. I'm out.

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:56 pm

Stop watching this topic

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:59 pm

The thing is, it should be an option. Not a hardwired thing.
My routings go beyond your basic A to B stuff.
If i need it to happen, i just map one button to multiple solo knobs...
Otherwise, it completely depends on how the tracks are routed and how much dummy clips are used.

And the funny thing is, you can already do it. But more energy seems to go into complaining about what a hassle it is to do.
Map one button to multiple solo buttons. Geez, it doesn't even take 4 seconds.
For every post, you could have subgrouped about 100 tracks..
With the added bonus that you can solo even more tracks outside the groups.

Perhaps they could speed up that process by adding the option to select multiple solo buttons at once to map to. And once they are mapped, they are also linked. Meaning: if you click on one of them, all the parameters respond.
That way you have a quick way to do what you want. And it's impossible to do by accident. The current behaviour wouldn't need to change, because this would override it.
A new color for the solo button could indicate that it has a different function.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:06 pm

well, they should just implement solo isolate for every track, just like most other programs do. Y'know, they did it for us for return tracks with SIP, i'm sure they can do it for regular tracks too. And i'm sure they will at some point. In the meanime, i'm not shitting myself.

.lm.