Ableton Forum

Yeah, this emboldenment must end.

I read about this this morning, and of course he was tortured... This picture is the OFFICIALLY released picture of him, ferchrissakes!

Machinate wrote:Yeah, this emboldenment must end.

I read about this this morning, and of course he was tortured... This picture is the OFFICIALLY released picture of him, ferchrissakes!

looks more like a bad case of bed-head to me. "Let's let him oversleep--that'll break him!"

"Cardinal Biggles... poke him with the soft cushion! Confess! Confess!"

yeah, his main problem was always oversleeping. That, and being tortured by the americans.

yeah, no doubt. Poor fella!

pilcrow wrote:yeah, no doubt. Poor fella!

Yeah, I feel REAL bad for this scumbag...

buzzcock wrote:

pilcrow wrote:yeah, no doubt. Poor fella!

Yeah, I feel REAL bad for this scumbag...

Let the "two minutes hate" begin!

sqook wrote:

buzzcock wrote:

pilcrow wrote:yeah, no doubt. Poor fella!

Yeah, I feel REAL bad for this scumbag...

Let the "two minutes hate" begin!

OK, here's a start: I think it's interesting and appalling how the knee-jerk reaction of the majority here is to immediately rise to the defense of a mass murderer like this guy.

And equally fascinating is the "knee-jerk" reaction by others in swallowing whole whatever nonsense comes out of their television and radio.

And then Pilcrow says "Why do you hate freedom so much?"

pilcrow wrote:
OK, here's a start: I think it's interesting and appalling how the knee-jerk reaction of the majority here is to immediately rise to the defense of a mass murderer like this guy.

The most obvious factor is that countries like Germany and Denmark and the UK [where I am] lie outside the US patrio-fascist propaganda bubble and so we enjoy a rather different perspective on world events to you.

Where I live, the tag "mass murderer" is generally only applied to those that have been found guilty by due process - which doesn't involve being locked up in some dark, extra judicial offshore gulag and "interrogated" by the army and secret service for five years.

I dare say, as others have pointed out, you could get him to admit to shooting JR Ewing if you "interrogated" him for long enough but all that proves is that people will say whatever you want to hear in order to end the torture.

My question to you is how can you be so sure of the veracity of this report that you discount any other viewpoint? Is it that you are conditioned to assume that anyone fingered by your administration is automatically guilty?

No smoke without fire?

My position is that I don't know who this guy is or what he's done.

Neither do you.

All you think you know is what you've been told.

pilcrow wrote:

sqook wrote:

buzzcock wrote:
Yeah, I feel REAL bad for this scumbag...

Let the "two minutes hate" begin!

OK, here's a start: I think it's interesting and appalling how the knee-jerk reaction of the majority here is to immediately rise to the defense of a mass murderer like this guy.

Look, I'm all for prosecuting the 9/11 conspirators as much as the next guy, but I think it goes without saying that the US government's credibility when it comes to catching terrorists should be taken with a healthy grain of salt. Or two. The fact that this is coming out of guantanamo bay is equally questionable, because the US justice system essentially doesn't exist there, and the mentality of "guilty because we said so" rather than "innocent until proven guilty" can prevail.

The entire point of a court system is to provide this extra level of due process, so excuuu-use me for being a bit skeptical....

And I learn this on the day that I also learned that a guy who studies with me (an Italian) was released a few weeks ago after two weeks of solitary confinement, for being on a list of 'anarchists' and then getting caught WALKING AWAY from a beginning riot...

Freedom? Yeah, right...

popslut wrote:

pilcrow wrote:
OK, here's a start: I think it's interesting and appalling how the knee-jerk reaction of the majority here is to immediately rise to the defense of a mass murderer like this guy.

The most obvious factor is that countries like Germany and Denmark and the UK [where I am] lie outside the US patrio-fascist propaganda bubble and so we enjoy a rather different perspective on world events to you.

.

Your really under a fanatical spell if you truly believe that horse shit. As if Americans dont get the BBC, International News, World News etc here. As if americas information via Tv/Internet is controlled like cuba/china in a "fasicst propaganda bubble"... I mean seriously. lol

sqook wrote: The entire point of a court system is to provide this extra level of due process, so excuuu-use me for being a bit skeptical....

\

exactly. We can't just treat this like the typical criminal processing procedure- the way the U.S. handles "terrorist" suspects is very contra to its praised criminal justice system.

JACKAL & HYDE wrote:

popslut wrote:

pilcrow wrote:
OK, here's a start: I think it's interesting and appalling how the knee-jerk reaction of the majority here is to immediately rise to the defense of a mass murderer like this guy.

The most obvious factor is that countries like Germany and Denmark and the UK [where I am] lie outside the US patrio-fascist propaganda bubble and so we enjoy a rather different perspective on world events to you.

.

Your really under a fanatical spell if you truly believe that horse shit. As if Americans dont get the BBC, International News, World News etc here. As if americas information via Tv/Internet is controlled like cuba/china in a "fasicst propaganda bubble"... I mean seriously. lol

...again, couldn't have said it better

It's certainly plausible that he was the "operations" guy. Lots of organizations have a division of labour where the leader provides strategic guidance, but doesn't get into the weeds of operations. I couldn't see Osama Bin Laden or Al-Zawahiri going out and arranging pilot training for guys, getting them hotels, purchasing them passports, etc. They need somebody to do that for them.

But again, innocent until proven guilty... But I would bet that they US wouldn't take this to a prosecution if their case wasn't a slam dunk.

With the mainstream media (and islamist and conspiracy-theorist-with-an-internet-connection and radical-leftist) scrutiny over this, the US certainly won't set up a patsy; it would be too obvious.

Why is it so inconcievable to the America Haters on this board that maybe, just maybe, they've actually caught one of the planners of 9/11?

[EDIT] I will concede that portraying KSM as the "Lex Luthor" of this operation may be hyperbole; that's how the media spins stuff, and how governments worldwide overrepresent their successes. Every country is guilty of this.