Wave Hammer in Soundforge in Limiter mode is a better limiter than using Compressor II set to Limiter preset.
The best limiter to my ears is Voxengo's Elephant. It only costs 70 bucks and I like it's sound better than L2 or L3 Waves limiters, which to my ears colour the sound a certain way. Elephant can colour the sound but it can also be used almost transparently depending on which mode. Also it has 4x oversampling, which for mixing (uses too much juice for Live performance) relaly helps to tame those inter sample peaks missed by many other limiters.
Mastering tips
An old link, and its a bit of a ranting party-pooper, but a fun read nonetheless
http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/dyn ... namics.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~mrichter/dyn ... namics.htm
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leedsquietman
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
- Location: greater toronto area
agreed but some genres suffer less from louder mastered material and the effects of clipping, notably music with less dynamic range and layers to start with, such as stripped down hip hop or electronica. Jazz and classical, where dynamic range is everything still tend to use quieter mastering and no clipping.
Also, RMS levels are not mentioned in this article but they have increased from around -15 db RMS early in the days of CDs to around -9 db RMS in many modern recordings. Some recordings have known to hit about -7.5, this allows pretty much no subtle nuances or 'quieter' moments in songs.
I usually try and hit -11 db RMS, it sounds pretty loud but still allows dynamic range without too much or any clipping when your mix and mastering is good. Although some hypercompression effects are sometimes noticeable compared to the 24 or 32 bit mix in your DAW. This is handy little guide for a noob...
http://www.har-bal.com/mastering_process.php
Also, RMS levels are not mentioned in this article but they have increased from around -15 db RMS early in the days of CDs to around -9 db RMS in many modern recordings. Some recordings have known to hit about -7.5, this allows pretty much no subtle nuances or 'quieter' moments in songs.
I usually try and hit -11 db RMS, it sounds pretty loud but still allows dynamic range without too much or any clipping when your mix and mastering is good. Although some hypercompression effects are sometimes noticeable compared to the 24 or 32 bit mix in your DAW. This is handy little guide for a noob...
http://www.har-bal.com/mastering_process.php
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studios210
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:33 pm
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Contact:
Mastering
My weapons of choice for mastering are:
Izotope Ozone 3: Amazing multiband exciter, multiband stereo imaging, eq, multiband dynamics and mastering reverb.
Waves SSL Compressor: With subtle compression settings (1 to 2 dB gain reduction). Adds a very nice analog warmth to the mix and introduces some extra punch.
BetaBugsAudio SimpleSqueeze: A free plug in, works nice for extra punch with a moderate setting.
Live's Utility: For DC offset correction.
PSP Vintage Warmer: One of the best native plug in compressors available. Multiband setting, moderate compression. The Knee Function works very well for a plug in. Adds extra punch with a moderate setting once again, and sounds amazing.
Waves L3 UltraMaximizer: Very nice for a native plug in once again. Use no more than -3dB of Attenuation as it tends to sound crappy after that.
Elemental Audio Inspector: Last but not least Inspector is a must have tool for metering. Very nice customizable meters with spectrum analyser, Peak and RMS metering. Unfortunately modern productions tend to get louder and louder and the -9dB RMS margin seems to be the threshold of a professional and ... expensive sounding production. So aim for that and don't forget that usually excessive low end tends to "steal" a lot of dynamic range so proceed accordingly!
Try mixing with this chain on in your master track, in the final stages of your productions as mixing through such heavy compression is a totally different thing. If you are out of horse power though you can get a hold of the amazing FXTeleport and... a second PC probably! Plug in hosting over LAN. A blessing!
Izotope Ozone 3: Amazing multiband exciter, multiband stereo imaging, eq, multiband dynamics and mastering reverb.
Waves SSL Compressor: With subtle compression settings (1 to 2 dB gain reduction). Adds a very nice analog warmth to the mix and introduces some extra punch.
BetaBugsAudio SimpleSqueeze: A free plug in, works nice for extra punch with a moderate setting.
Live's Utility: For DC offset correction.
PSP Vintage Warmer: One of the best native plug in compressors available. Multiband setting, moderate compression. The Knee Function works very well for a plug in. Adds extra punch with a moderate setting once again, and sounds amazing.
Waves L3 UltraMaximizer: Very nice for a native plug in once again. Use no more than -3dB of Attenuation as it tends to sound crappy after that.
Elemental Audio Inspector: Last but not least Inspector is a must have tool for metering. Very nice customizable meters with spectrum analyser, Peak and RMS metering. Unfortunately modern productions tend to get louder and louder and the -9dB RMS margin seems to be the threshold of a professional and ... expensive sounding production. So aim for that and don't forget that usually excessive low end tends to "steal" a lot of dynamic range so proceed accordingly!
Try mixing with this chain on in your master track, in the final stages of your productions as mixing through such heavy compression is a totally different thing. If you are out of horse power though you can get a hold of the amazing FXTeleport and... a second PC probably! Plug in hosting over LAN. A blessing!
My favorite was the UAD Precision Limiter, best i've heard yet and the integrated K-system metering is great. I still prefer the L2 over the L3, I could never get on with that one. same witth EAS (now RND) Finis, a lot of people love that one, but I didn't find as transparent as I'd like.
tarekith
https://tarekith.com
https://tarekith.com
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Michael-SW
- Posts: 2054
- Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:05 pm
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Mastering
While I like Ozone, I think their mastering reverb sounds a bit crap. Might be that I that I don't have experience enough, since I've never actually used a mastering reverb for real.studios210 wrote:My weapons of choice for mastering are:
Izotope Ozone 3: Amazing multiband exciter, multiband stereo imaging, eq, multiband dynamics and mastering reverb.
...
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leedsquietman
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
- Location: greater toronto area
I don't usually apply any additional verb on masterin, I prefer to keep that in the DAW mix on individual tracks, although a little can sometimes help to glue a song together.
My weapons of choice are (a combination of these, dependent on end result)
a) Sony Soundforge 8 as the audio editor/vst host with these plugins, Plugs used sporadically withing Soundforge are include Graphic EQ, Parametric EQ, Wavehammer, Acoustic Mirror, Dither. Remove DC offset is available and the editing is very simple and easy to use, as are fades and sample rate conversions or mixdown to mp3, ogg vorbis etc.
PSP Mastering Compressor - very awesome, allows sidechaining etc.
Magneto - vintage warmer/tape saturation type plug in Cubase SX3
Voxengo SPAN - spectrum analyser
Voxengo Soniformer or Voxengo Marquis compressor
Voxengo Gliss EQ
Voxengo Elephant 2.5 Mastering Limiter or Kjaerhus MPL-1PRO Limiter
sometimes I might break out Steinberg Mastering Edition for it's metering and multi band compressor and harmonic exciter but not usually - I usually run this within Cubase rather than Soundforge. I only use multi band compression to fix up a bad mix really, too easy to misuse it.
I agree that L2 is a better limiter than L3 but really I don't like either Waves product as they colour the sound, Elephant and MPL-1 PRO are very transparent in comparison. But for pumping dance music, the L2 is like industry standard almost....
My weapons of choice are (a combination of these, dependent on end result)
a) Sony Soundforge 8 as the audio editor/vst host with these plugins, Plugs used sporadically withing Soundforge are include Graphic EQ, Parametric EQ, Wavehammer, Acoustic Mirror, Dither. Remove DC offset is available and the editing is very simple and easy to use, as are fades and sample rate conversions or mixdown to mp3, ogg vorbis etc.
PSP Mastering Compressor - very awesome, allows sidechaining etc.
Magneto - vintage warmer/tape saturation type plug in Cubase SX3
Voxengo SPAN - spectrum analyser
Voxengo Soniformer or Voxengo Marquis compressor
Voxengo Gliss EQ
Voxengo Elephant 2.5 Mastering Limiter or Kjaerhus MPL-1PRO Limiter
sometimes I might break out Steinberg Mastering Edition for it's metering and multi band compressor and harmonic exciter but not usually - I usually run this within Cubase rather than Soundforge. I only use multi band compression to fix up a bad mix really, too easy to misuse it.
I agree that L2 is a better limiter than L3 but really I don't like either Waves product as they colour the sound, Elephant and MPL-1 PRO are very transparent in comparison. But for pumping dance music, the L2 is like industry standard almost....
+1 The MPL-1PRO is brilliant. Also, Sound Forge 9 is out.
Interesting discussion. I'm trying to come up with some general purpose modular mastering tools that are as native to Live as possible. I just didn't get on with Ozone but it inspired me to try and create something similar as a Live6 rack. Here's the problem though...
In researching I became increasingly frustrated with the available expert insights. I have an appreciation for 'Dark Side of the Moon' and all but I've personally never marvelled at its production value and I get vertigo when I listen to 'Magical Mystery Tour' on my iPod. Ultimately, it seems I am more interested in what Big Bass Brian has to say these days than Bob Ludwig. I crank Mylo's 'Ottos Journey' which pushes the instantaneous RMS to -2.5 dB or so and it makes me laugh and move. I'm not asking for much more than that out of music right now. I certainly don't care what the waveform LOOKS like. We may be to blame for dancing on the grave of dynamic range but at least the dancefloor's pumpin'.
Interesting discussion. I'm trying to come up with some general purpose modular mastering tools that are as native to Live as possible. I just didn't get on with Ozone but it inspired me to try and create something similar as a Live6 rack. Here's the problem though...
In researching I became increasingly frustrated with the available expert insights. I have an appreciation for 'Dark Side of the Moon' and all but I've personally never marvelled at its production value and I get vertigo when I listen to 'Magical Mystery Tour' on my iPod. Ultimately, it seems I am more interested in what Big Bass Brian has to say these days than Bob Ludwig. I crank Mylo's 'Ottos Journey' which pushes the instantaneous RMS to -2.5 dB or so and it makes me laugh and move. I'm not asking for much more than that out of music right now. I certainly don't care what the waveform LOOKS like. We may be to blame for dancing on the grave of dynamic range but at least the dancefloor's pumpin'.