Ableton Forum

the hardest part when ur gettin into it is turning a sketch into a timeline.

make one solid loop and make a 2 minute timeline out of that and then go on editing everything then get the best bits of that and make a new arrangement from there,make some variations, a chorus and bang

most arrangements are somthing along the lines of:

intro verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus chorus outro

ok cool, thanx

how long typically is each part of the time line? i.e chorus/verse etc...

are they 16 bits on the ableton grid? (is that 4 bars?) excuse my ignorance, i am really trying hard to learn.

my friend knows ableton well and he said to add to my song a good idea is to have a bass with the same structure as the melody by copying and pasting and then divert away from that a bit... adding/taking away notes as a way to start? is that a decent way for beginners?

um he also said adding pad sounds for 4 bars and little sounds will help layer it and make it less boring.

oh one more thing, he advised adding a resonator to the melody to take the sting out of it so that it can be in the background during the main course of the song so its not so in your face. baring in mind i am making moody, slow hiphop so at this stage it doesn't need to be complicated.

if anyone could comment on, critique or add to his advice please do so, i would be very grateful.

thank you

Your friend has a lot of good ideas indeed. Thanks for sharing.

Here are some pieces of my own personal formula, that can indeed become formulaic, but at least should help give you a starting point:

1) Composing melodies and basslines: Start on the A key, and go up and down from there on the white keys only. Your safest bet is to go every other white key, but some white keys between sound good too. Compose your basslines and melodies in this same way, and you'll at least be sure they're in the same key (ie, sound good together).

2) Pattern lengths: Make all your patterns 1, 2, 4, 8 or 16 bars long. For example, you might have a 1 bar beat, layered with a 2 bar bassline, layered with a 4 bar pad, layered with a 8 bar piano part, layered with a 16 bar lead. Thats a contrived example, but you get the point. Having each part an even multiple of another will make arrangement much easier.

3) Arrangement: Think pyramid (or, it will look like a pyramid in the arrange view). Try to introduce a new part every 4 to 8 bars. Once all your pieces are in the mix for 8 to 16 bars, cut out some parts, build them back together, etc. Arrangement is about tension and release. Build up the tension by adding parts, and then release by cutting out a bunch of parts for a break.

4) Sound selection: When you're just starting out, keep it simple. Just pick 4 or 5 unique sounds for your song, and work with those only. Pick sounds that contrast with eachother, so the sounds don't clash. For example, a piano and acoustic guitar have the same basic sound (a higher pitched short plinky sound). So mix a piano or guitar with something that has a longer softer sound (organ or rhodes, for example). And then let your bass guitar occupy the bottom of the spectrum.

5) Atmosphere: Your friend has good tips. I'd just add to that to use and abuse reverb and delay to create some atmosphere.

6) Experimentation: Get a midi controller if you don't already. Even if you don't know how to play the keys, just plonking around on the controller can really help you get some fresh ideas.

7) Basslines: There's no good rule of thumb here. Your friends tip to copy the melody and tweak it isn't bad. You might end up with something a little busy though. If you're just starting out, try just holding one note for an entire bar, maybe composed into a 4 bar pattern (example: A for 4 beats, E for 4 beats, D for 4 beats, and C for 4 beats). From there, maybe chop up those long notes into something that counters the kick drum.

If you still have FL Studio installed, a few of my demo songs are still bundled with it in the /Data/Projects/Cool Stuff/ folder. My tunes are JasonC-Abstraction and JasonC-Blue Shift. Both are somewhat inspired by Massive Attack, and both are very simplistic songs that should make for good example learning material.

Hope this helps! Believe me, I know how you feel. 10 years ago I couldn't even figure out how to build a "4 on the floor" kick drum loop.

Check out the Dance Music Manual. It teaches all of these basics you are wondering about....fundamentals of structure, music theory, synthesis, mixing, mastering, effects, genre-specific tracks. It's a little outdated and occasionaly inaccurate, but it's the best writing onthe subject I've seen yet.

I highly recommend you read up on music theory to understand bars, beats, scales, chords, chord progressions, harmony (layering notes) etc - without this you will really be lost!

knowing what to add next is combination of mixing knowledge ( filling in the spectrum ) and experience with knowing what works ( listen to songs that flow nicely and use them as a guide )

knotkranky is very wise with 'dont focus on the end'.. just move forward and experiment and keep making alot of songs and you will then get more comfortable and figure out what works for your style. don't try to make a hit right off the bat, just do little changes in the song every 8 or 4 bars - add something in, take something out, change a pattern.

I spent a few years frustrated with music and didn't make anything that I was proud of until I spent 6months with a piano teacher to teach me music theory. there are some free online lessons and pdf's floating around that you can use to teach yourself if you want to try that.

good luck, and the best advice I can give you is just have fun and play... spend a few hours daily and just experiment. its ok if you dont write or work on a song every day!

for me, who also lacks in this department, these tutorials have been basic
and helpfull.
They are for fruity loops, but you can easily translate this to live.

Give it a try.

http://www.wayneandwax.org/lessons/

http://www.wayneandwax.org/lessons/root ... orial.html

great thread. i guess what's important to me is not being constrained by a way. maybe think of yourself as an eccentric artist. just play.

yeah alex i know what you mean, but it's like telling a story...

the basic formula is intro/plot/end. once you know how to tell a story then you can start with the end, then go back to the start, then have the plot. or you can start half way through the story etc...

what i'm basically trying to say is that i want to do some crazy shit but i want to walk before i run. if i don't i'll do that hilarious thing when you try to run faster than your body can actually run and you end up looking like a right cunt hahaha

oh and thank you EVERYBODY for giving me hints and tips on this. really i am very very grateful and please keep it coming. i am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

http://www.ravenspiral.com/ravenspiralguide.pdf This guide has loads of useful tips on crafting a song.