Ableton Forum

dys4ik wrote:More of this crap?

The percentage of respectable people in useful fields of employment who make statements on this in favour of the conspiracy is actually pretty tiny, I think.

I also am not a fan of 'argument from authority', which is all this is.

None of these people have any more proof than the crazy homeless guy on the street corner. Conjecture and hypothesis just don't cut it.

did you read the pilot testimonies? I'd say the word of those guys on whether an amateur could make those manouvers was pretty compelling

I said on the day it happened that something was very wrong

it all just seemed to neat, and far too beneficial to the neo-con agenda

but to be honest I'm just cynical and jaded now and dont really hold any faith or belief that there is any kind of hope of justice in our world, so I dont even really want to think about it any more

the real cunt about survival of the fittest + corporatism is that the ruthless and greedy will always find a way to fuck over the rest of us who who arent prepared to kill for greed - and so those who are have the advantage

I think the big mistake alot of Americans make is thinking "they wouldnt kill their own people" and that they have all American's interests at heart - but the US health care system for one should be proof enough thats not the case

the thing I think you have to understand is these obscenely rich people wouldnt consider average americans "their own people" - dont assume all these big corporation loving government people are patriotic to all things american - the only symbol they salute is the dollar sign, and "their own kind" are the obscenely rich, or "elite" as Bush called them

there is no way Bush et al are the "good guys" from our perspective, whatever happened on 9/11 - I think they would easily have it in them to kill 3000 Americans if that's what it takes - they would make damn sure their obscenely rich buddies were out of the way

I just find it incredible how ready people are to expect that the Government is there to serve the interests of "the people" - that to me is the ultimate in naivity

Not to be a defeatist, but let's say every single conspiracy theory turned out to be true. So? What are you going to do about it? Even scarier, what do you think the rest of the world is going to do about it? You think they hate us now? And it's not like the US has a monopoly on manipulative and shadey governments.

Loose change film, anyone?

Come on, look at the evidence.

Patch wrote:

dango wrote:80+ Entertainment and Media Professionals

Yeah, but...


What does Paris Hiltonhave to say on the matter?

She voted for president last year.

as it says in the 'no surprises' song
bring down the government, they don't care for us

this old topic again
dango have you been living in isolation for the last 6 years? shouldnt you be more interested in what they are up to now? but hey, who am i to say that the masterminds use this topic as a distraction....

hambone1 wrote:There IS growing evidence that excessive marijuana use causes paranoid delusions, though...

you're just being paranoid.

the whole thing stinks but if half of 'Loose Change' is proven correct do you think anything will come of it? Learn from the past, protect the future, move on.

The scrap from 9/11 is being made into the USS George W Bush aircraft carrier, I'm going to go hurl.

Meef Chaloin wrote:this old topic again
dango have you been living in isolation for the last 6 years? shouldnt you be more interested in what they are up to now? but hey, who am i to say that the masterminds use this topic as a distraction....

no that day can not just be swept under the rug until the thousands of questions that have gone unanswered are investigated and answered. the 9/11 comission report was not a proper invesigation, if you leave info out it is therefor incomplete. so you are saying that maybe if something fishy did happen that day that those responsible should be let off the hook because 6 years has passes by? that is crazy talk.

evrything that they are up to today is happening because of that day. you may be willing to submit and conform to their agenda but i am not. i will keep talking about it and talking about it until the day comes when they pass a law that talking about it will get you locked up. then in jail i will be talking about it. oh wait, bush just passed that law on the 17th. oh well, carry on.

Tone Deft wrote:

hambone1 wrote:There IS growing evidence that excessive marijuana use causes paranoid delusions, though...

you're just being paranoid.

Seriously... I'd like to see some statistics showing the correlation between those who believe in conspiracy theories, and those who regularly smoke marijuana.

I think you'd find a positive correlation...

hambone1 wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:

hambone1 wrote:There IS growing evidence that excessive marijuana use causes paranoid delusions, though...

you're just being paranoid.

Seriously... I'd like to see some statistics showing the correlation between those who believe in conspiracy theories, and those who regularly smoke marijuana.

I think you'd find a positive correlation...

sounds like a conspiracy theory.

you make a point but that's not to say that all conspiracists are high.

start with the idea that bush handled the whole thing poorly, ask yourself how and why. there's just too much to believe that nothing went on at the bush/saudi/oil money level, some people knew what was up.

anyway...

It obviously wouldn't apply to all conspiracists. But generalizations are just that... generalizations.

A positive correlation wouldn't necessarily imply causation, either. It could be that the same type of people who choose to use recreational drugs are the same type of people who question authority.

a little robert anton wilson for you:

My own opinion is that belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence. The more certitude one assumes, the less there is left to think about, and a person sure of everything would never have any need to think about anything and might be considered clinically dead under current medical standards, where absence of brain activity is taken to mean that life has ended.

My attitude is identical to that of Dr. Gribbin and the majority of physicists today, and is known in physics as "the Copenhagen Interpretation," because it was formulated in Copenhagen by Dr. Niels Bohr and his co-workers c. 1926-28. The Copenhagen Interpretation is sometimes called "model agnosticism" and holds that any grid we use to organize our experience of the world is a model of the world and should not be confused with the world itself. Alfred Korzybski, the semanticist, tried to popularize this outside physics with the slogan, "The map is not the territory." Alan Watts, a talented exegete of Oriental philosophy, restated it more vividly as "The menu is not the meal."

Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude.

that's for folks on both sides....




.lm.

hambone1 wrote:It obviously wouldn't apply to all conspiracists. But generalizations are just that... generalizations.

A positive correlation wouldn't necessarily imply causation, either. It could be that the same type of people who choose to use recreational drugs are the same type of people who question authority.

true, and there's the feeling that every thought is so f-ing grandiose while you're sitting there glued to the couch watching animal planet. I've known a few stoners that had great ideas for businesses and patents and gigs but never got of their asses and did any of it.


cue the scene from 'Dazed And Confused'

Slater: George Washington was in a cult, and the cult was into aliens, man... Didja ever look at a dollar bill, man? There's some spooky shit goin' on there. And it's green too.

leisuremuffin wrote:a little robert anton wilson for you:

My own opinion is that belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence. The more certitude one assumes, the less there is left to think about, and a person sure of everything would never have any need to think about anything and might be considered clinically dead under current medical standards, where absence of brain activity is taken to mean that life has ended.

My attitude is identical to that of Dr. Gribbin and the majority of physicists today, and is known in physics as "the Copenhagen Interpretation," because it was formulated in Copenhagen by Dr. Niels Bohr and his co-workers c. 1926-28. The Copenhagen Interpretation is sometimes called "model agnosticism" and holds that any grid we use to organize our experience of the world is a model of the world and should not be confused with the world itself. Alfred Korzybski, the semanticist, tried to popularize this outside physics with the slogan, "The map is not the territory." Alan Watts, a talented exegete of Oriental philosophy, restated it more vividly as "The menu is not the meal."

Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised." In terms of the history of science and knowledge in general, this appears absurd and arrogant to me, and I am perpetually astonished that so many people still manage to live with such a medieval attitude.

that's for folks on both sides....




.lm.

wow, well put and can be applied to so many aspects of life.