Digital Performer

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:14 pm

evernaut wrote: Oh, apart from Nuendo

I keep hearing this,,
I've never even seen it open,, what is it about Nuendo that polarizes people so much,, it's my experience that people either love it or hate it, with very few who think it's just okay,,

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:15 pm

It's just a big, expensively bloated Cubase really. Lots of features no doubt, but they just get in the way if you don't need em.

Sorry to derail the thread, but I'm keen to see what the imminent Reaper OS X version will be like actually. I've tried a few early builds but they've been too incomplete for me to really enjoy it. And Reaper does for free/cheap nearly everything that Nuendo does & more.

kb420 · Post by **kb420** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:47 pm

Wow!! Thanks for all the feedback. I have always been a pc user, but as of late, I have been considering switching to Mac. I currently use Sonar as a companion with Live, and I thought that DP is really the only Mac-only app that compares to Sonar. Logic is just too expensive. I thought that DP's interface is actually clean and concise, but I have never seen anyone use it. I just don't hear about it as much as Sonar, Cubase, Live, and of course Pro Tools.

I'll do some more research before I commit to anything, but once again, thanks for the feedback.

Isaac Yacockov · Post by **Isaac Yacockov** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:56 pm

kb420 wrote:Wow!! Thanks for all the feedback. I have always been a pc user, but as of late, I have been considering switching to Mac. I currently use Sonar as a companion with Live, and I thought that DP is really the only Mac-only app that compares to Sonar. Logic is just too expensive. I thought that DP's interface is actually clean and concise, but I have never seen anyone use it. I just don't hear about it as much as Sonar, Cubase, Live, and of course Pro Tools.

I'll do some more research before I commit to anything, but once again, thanks for the feedback.

check out http://www.unicornation.com for DP related (as well as all motu-mac issues) info. There are some very knowledgeable folks.

tsewai · Post by **tsewai** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:35 pm

I'm new to Live. Just 1 month experience on it. But I've been an 8 year DP user.

I think DP is a very deep program, very flexible, especially on the MIDI side.
If you would score to picture, I think DP is the most versatile choice out there. For example, the "chunk" feature allow you to save different pieces of music in the same project, which often happen if you are working on TV or film scoring. I also use the chunk feature to keep multiple versions of the same song as I progress on an arrangement.
It also allow you to keep different takes on the same track.

If it comes to audio editing, then ProTools is the best IMHO. If you learn all the shortcuts, I have yet to see any DAW more efficient in audio editing.

I haven't used Sonar of CuBase before. I tried Logic, but since it use a different paradigm, I think it difficult to pick up as a long term DP user. Moreover, it doesn't have the "chunk" and "takes" feature that I need.

I'm trying Live because i think it's very innovative, and I think it will be a great tool for me in the days to come. I'm still trying to combine my knowledge on traditional DAW (such as DP) with the way Live works. I'm hoping I'll get up to speed in Live ASAP.

I think we can't do meter change in Live right now. I wish it will be added in Live7.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:26 pm

Nuendo is almost exactly the same as Cubase except for having a couple of extra plugins and some extra features for post production, most of which you would never need unless you worked in broadcasting or video editing etc. And this does not dominate the menus etc, the main basic audio and video functions are the same. The GUI is almost identical except for being a bit darker than Cubase.

What exactly is hard about using it? Cubase/Nuendo is just as easy if not easier to get a handle on than Logic and like Logic, it has infinitely more features than ProTools. It's a good solution. Although like all the other DAWS except for Live, it is no fun to use for composing tunes quickly.

I have never used DP but it is very popular in the world of soundtrack composition/ audio to video work etc, seen 3 different articles in 3 different magazines lately where some Hollywood soundtrack maestro uses DP for soundtracks to movies.

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:02 pm

Nothing is that hard about Nuendo...if you put in a bit of time - as with any DAW.

I've personally found that it's - like Cubase - not very intuitively designed. I have a real dislike of the + and - zoom buttons ( why isn't Live's drag & pull zoom style a standard approach now on every wave editor?! ) and the amount of different windows you have to toggle between...and....well, I could rant on about my personal niggles with it..... but that's all they are.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:36 pm

Well, it is a matter of personal taste and subjective but as I grew up using Cubase vst3.7 and have upgraded to SX and SX3, I find it a very easy DAW to work in but no doubt I'd say the same about DP or Logic or Sonar etc if that's where I cut my teeth. I like Cubase's interface better than Sonar and Live but have to admit that Logic's environment is a nice looking interface.

You can customize Cubase quite a bit to suit your tastes better if the default choices are not to your taste with some limitations.

Live is a wonder though, if you have 20 or less tracks on your project I love the simplicity of it's interface but after that it gets a bit too crowded in the session view for mixing. I like that Cubase SX and CUbase 4 have 3 mixer windows and decent metering.

These days, I find myself using Live exclusively for about 80-85% of my needs, Cubase may soon be retired if Live 7 or 8 keep on improving on what is already a great product in Live 6.

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:59 pm

LIVE rewired to DP is an incredibly powerful combination.

Isaac Yacockov · Post by **Isaac Yacockov** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:09 pm

ChiDJ wrote:LIVE rewired to DP is an incredibly powerful combination.

your a smart human

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:22 pm

ChiDJ wrote:I've used DP since version 1, (performer). I also use LIVE, Logic and Pro-Tools.

I understand your frustration with Chunks MachinesWorking. I don't use chunks and I write pop songs.

DP is an incredibly deep DAW which allows complete customization to work the way you want to work. It just takes a significant time investment, but the pay-off is worth it IMHO.

It's like getting a doctorate versus a GED.

That's all true, but compare DP to Logic or Live, the Sequence page, and Track overview in DP are what you could compare to Live's Arrangement View or Logic's Arrange Page. With Logic, you have the most powerful editing set up IMO: if you haven't in Logic, set up the right click to be the magnifying glass, instantly you can zoom to any part for editing in the Arrange. Folders in Logic allow you to take a break for instance, and put it in a "chunk" or object that you can move around in any order in the song. Compare this to DP where once a part is in the Track, you have to manually select the entire part from say 89/1/1 to 134/3/1 and so on. Clippings help a lot, but after a song is almost finished, and you think there should be only 6 repeats of the main part, and 1/2 the end part should come in after the second break...... it's at these moments when DP just doesn't have the editing facilities of Logic, or Live.
The lack of object oriented linear sequencing in the arrangement pages of DP is my main grip with DP. The fact that the Track Overview in DP gives you a skewed representation of object oriented sequencing, yet in fact does not really, is a sad thing IMO.
After all that, I would like to say that clippings are one of the absolute best ideas in DAW land, Live sort of comes close to that, but Clippings are much better. If DP would just break down and to some small degree embrace object oriented sequencing like EVERY other DAW out there, then DP would be unbeatable IMO.

That and get a handle on all the little snags in the real time editing.

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:45 pm

I agree.

The tracks over view needs to be updated. That's where I do all of my composition and the fact that you can't zoom vertically is a real downer and has been requested by users frequently.

Movement of measures, (or re-arrangement of parts) can be done fairly easy if you highlight the row above the conductor track, (it highlights all tracks for as many measures as you want. Then you can apple+C: copy and then insert apple+K or snip apple+J into any other area for quick arrangement. This goes pretty quickly if you zoom out to 1 column = 8 measures.

But, it sounds like Logic does handle this more intuitively.

Don't forget key commands. DP really excels with the ability to customize shortcuts with single key commands. And the new pitch tool is like getting auto-tune / melodyne for free.

J.Daniels · Post by **J.Daniels** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:56 am

DP5 has been my main DAW for awhile now. Its a no frills software with no limitations whatsoever and can do anything you want it to do due to its flexible customization. You can even turn the GUI into a pro tools clone if you want to...

But the main reason i stick with DP, is because of the Polar looping application that comes with it. Its criminally overlooked aswell! basically its just a looping workstation that allows you to record like 50 passes to ram, and then print the passes you want to keep as soundbites. Its just a really creative environment to compose in.

Although, with saying that, DP can get abit fiddly and disoriented when your forever flicking through windows and moving around.

For audio pro's its a killer app that is highly underestimated, but it can be abit overwhelming when you simply just need to get a track down quick and mix it quick.

pieter · Post by **pieter** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:07 am

aisling wrote:
ChiDJ wrote:I've used DP since version 1, (performer). I also use LIVE, Logic and Pro-Tools.

I understand your frustration with Chunks MachinesWorking. I don't use chunks and I write pop songs.

DP is an incredibly deep DAW which allows complete customization to work the way you want to work. It just takes a significant time investment, but the pay-off is worth it IMHO.

It's like getting a doctorate versus a GED.
I agree at the end of the day when it's time for serious DAW muscle, dp is the go to for me. Live is my "in the moment" app for getting ideas, groove, flow and vibe together. The 2 are a wonderful array of tools for all kinds of inspiring and creative work. If I only had to choose between on or the other, DP would probably be the stronger app.

exactly! i make electropop music most of the times. sometimes i start in ableton live to find some grooves, tweeked sounds, automated effects. then i render the stuff and make the structure (edit: in DP). the overview window (what's it called... tracks?) is very handy. and you can do crossfades in DP.

aisling · Post by **aisling** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:11 am

pieter wrote:
aisling wrote:
ChiDJ wrote:I've used DP since version 1, (performer). I also use LIVE, Logic and Pro-Tools.

I understand your frustration with Chunks MachinesWorking. I don't use chunks and I write pop songs.

DP is an incredibly deep DAW which allows complete customization to work the way you want to work. It just takes a significant time investment, but the pay-off is worth it IMHO.

It's like getting a doctorate versus a GED.
I agree at the end of the day when it's time for serious DAW muscle, dp is the go to for me. Live is my "in the moment" app for getting ideas, groove, flow and vibe together. The 2 are a wonderful array of tools for all kinds of inspiring and creative work. If I only had to choose between on or the other, DP would probably be the stronger app.
exactly! i make electropop music most of the times. sometimes i start in ableton live to find some grooves, tweeked sounds, automated effects. then i render the stuff and make the structure. the overview window (what's it called... tracks?) is very handy. and you can do crossfades in DP.

And your working smart not hard. Personally I wish live could be the all in one app as it is just a wonderful composition tool. Something about the adio engine of DP, I swear it sound a little better than live. I could be hearing things though....