Ableton Forum

Poster wrote:

Angstrom wrote:yep, pretty much everyone wants these I think. I'd actually be interested to find out if there is anyone here against group folders and track hiding ?

at least one..

Benshik wrote:imagine in a future update we get hypothetical folder tracks, racks, and now whole chunks compressed into tiny locators. i think it makes the programs way too complicated as all parts are folded, hidden, compressed somewhere out of reach. id prefer a more visual, straightforward "what you see is what you get approach" which is what live has always been about.

well, that's not entirely realistic is it.
Live already has some parts that are folded out of view eh. The Sampler tabs for a start, or the effects are hidden when you are looking at the wave view.

Really it's not about having everything visible, it's about having what is appropriate to the task in hand visible. In web design we always laugh at clients who want "everything on the front page, at the top" . It's simply not a benefit to have everything visible all the time.

I hate clients like that, so what I'm saying is ... kill him.

agreed.. as I replied because it was aimed at a wish/suggestion I did..

Poster wrote: 'What you see is what you get' is a nice saying,
but in case of Live (and software in general) almost undoable..
We all want new and more features, so Live will grow, 'screen estate' will therefore be scarce..
To use screen space in a very economic way, folding and collapsing has been a proven method..
Also very needed if you want to keep things clean..
Ofcourse things can get a bit complex if you go fold and hide stuff; but its either this or less features..
Can you imagine racks without folding/collapsing? - I don't t.b.h.

forge wrote:

andydes wrote: Midi assigable launch buttons for selected sections of the arrangement (one shot, loop or play from here). Place start and end markers in the timeline, like having multiple loops set up.

You can actually MIDI assign arrange locators

Ah-ha! So I could use dummy clips routed back in via Midi yoke or something to play and loop different parts of the song from session view? Might be able to find a use for that one. Ooo, like it. But now I really need a back to arrangement button for the track.

Or better still a back to arrangement button in place of the stop button.

Poster wrote:

Angstrom wrote:yep, pretty much everyone wants these I think. I'd actually be interested to find out if there is anyone here against group folders and track hiding ?

at least one..

Benshik wrote:imagine in a future update we get hypothetical folder tracks, racks, and now whole chunks compressed into tiny locators. i think it makes the programs way too complicated as all parts are folded, hidden, compressed somewhere out of reach. id prefer a more visual, straightforward "what you see is what you get approach" which is what live has always been about.

Sound great. That's exactly what I want.

Excuse me, I have to get back to holding a gun against Benshik's head, forcing him to use racks.

All those wishes are emphasizing the parts of the program that make Live so special! So a superbig plus for them!
Ableton should concentrate on these areas full scale cause no other daw are offering this stuff. You can get 1000 instruments and fx in Logic so it seems cheap, but this doesn't mean much if there are ways in Live to work much more creatively. And this should absolutely include the arrangement, which is too much in line of the sequencer traditions.

andydes wrote:Clone clips. Edit one and they all change (also between session and arrangment) Can be unlinked if desired.

I really like that one. I think the manufacturers of audio software could generally look more beyond the edge of the plate in the direction of graphics applications. Related to cloning clips this means: Like in 3DS-Max you should be able to make copies, instances and references. "Copies" means: same behaviour as had; "instances" means: change one and they change all, like you proposed, "references" mean, and here comes the cool one: change the father and the sons change, change the sons and the father keeps unchanged (change the grand father and... you get the idea).

Jörg

Speaking of non-linearity in arrangement, here with respect to the view: Why must the space a section of a piece takes on screen be proportional to its musical (that is bars, beats, ticks) playing time. Why can't it be set to be proportional to it's natural (that is minutes, seconds) time? Or to it's (temporary) importance. Say I'm working on a breakdown. The sections that come before and after this are not important for me right now, so I set them to be very tiny on screen.

Jörg

edit: sorry I didn't pay attention that there was this "compress time" wish already.

joewes wrote:

andydes wrote:Clone clips. Edit one and they all change (also between session and arrangment) Can be unlinked if desired.

I really like that one. I think the manufacturers of audio software could generally look more beyond the edge of the plate in the direction of graphics applications. Related to cloning clips this means: Like in 3DS-Max you should be able to make copies, instances and references. "Copies" means: same behaviour as had; "instances" means: change one and they change all, like you proposed, "references" mean, and here comes the cool one: change the father and the sons change, change the sons and the father keeps unchanged (change the grand father and... you get the idea).

Jörg

I've been on about this one for a while

I think it should work like master/slave does now

like an "alias" button in the clip view

how about having the option of different playlists for each track a la protools?

in PT it's used as a way of storing different takes on one track, but in live maybe it could be randomised, or have follow actions or depend on what another track is playing...

Been thinking about this again.

Unfortunately, I've realised there's a small problem with some of my suggestions. If you have a clip that references a section of the arrangement through the session view, you can trigger that part of the arrangement at any time. OK, that's fine, but if you then wanted to record the mix back into the arrangement would you be overwriting what you'd done before? Or would you need a second arrange page for recording? Could get complicated unless we can think of another way round it. Maybe the section of the arrangement being referenced needs to be actually stored with the session clip, I don't know. Any thoughts?

Follow actions for arrangement markers would have the same problem, if you wanted to record the remixed version, you'd also need a second arrangement page, I guess. Or maybe you simply need to record everything after the previous arrangement.

Some flaws to be ironed out, I suppose.

if it was easy they would have done it by now

I thought you were being suspitiously vague about this idea.

I know enough to know that I don't know enough to suggest how they should do this!
I can come up with wacky plans, but in reality they probably wouldn't match up with anything that is under the hood of Ableton. They know better than me how to accomplish non-linear stuff in their own app.

As long as they accomplish the end result, I don't really care how they get there, eh

My BIG +1 goes to grouping tracks and creating 'clones' or 'aliases' or 'instances', whatever you want to call it. Should be easy, really. Go Ableton!

Yes, more integration between session and arrangement view! A clip from session view could be taken as a ghost clip at the multiple places in arrangement view...