The Long Tail: Music and the Net

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:31 pm

beats me wrote:What you said is probably both true and sad. I won't hijack this thread and turn it into a rant about humans becoming a race of social retard pussies.
I will!

How many of you think the time spent on this and other forums is real/valuable/tangible/human ? How many consider the connections made here to be worth something? I wonder what the definition of community has become.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:41 pm

beats me wrote:What you said is probably both true and sad. I won't hijack this thread and turn it into a rant about humans becoming a race of social retard pussies.

I'm not saying that's all that humans will do, surfing for digital entertainment only, but what I am saying is that other impersonal mediums need replacing. Such as TV, CDs and Phonograph records and also gigs to 40,000 people in a football stadium.
All of these are pretty impersonal and dated 20th century methods of delivering entertainment - although we now accept them as furniture they are becoming seriously outdated. In fact they are unusual in erecting the 'fourth wall' , these media of the 20th C were the first to really say "you will listen while I perform"

A CD and a stadium gig are actually more impersonal experiences than those had online by Captain Orc-hands the Wizard and his bunch of elf dweebs, rescuing the mystic band of Cytorack from the Sinister Thurmaturge MegaDerek.

Now, if Captain Orc-hands can have an actual laugh with real people following a D&D type passtime, then so can other people with their passtimes. If you like listening to high quality music and you like talking about metaphysics with other stoners - there may well be some method of obtaining that experience via the same technology, or at least some daughter of that technology.

This doesn't mean we are going to stop doing other things such as drunken Céilidh or doing a spot of MMA, in fact there are people on here who do that stuff as well as making music with a computer and talking to people on the other side of the planet on a shitty phpBB forum. Now, if that last part (music computers and communication across the globe) was to be done better, would that really be a bad thing?
I mean, it seems we are doing it anyway ... just really, really badly.

Personally I fucking hate mice and keyboards as an interface to a myspace friends page .. that cannot be the best that technology has to offer us here. Give me a haptic control suit and a 3d interface to some next gen participatory entertainment over a concert DVD anyday.

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:58 pm

nebulae wrote:I love articles like this - I've been waiting for this day for like 20 years.
... and the article is three years olde:)
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:00 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
nebulae wrote:I love articles like this - I've been waiting for this day for like 20 years.
... and the article is three years olde:)
ok, literal one...geez...I meant that I've been waiting for this change/situation to occur for a long time...*sigh*

COSM
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Post by COSM » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:08 pm

I'm going to go a bit extreme on this :) bare with me

When you strip everything right down to the roots, the appreciation of music (or any art) is a human trait that still has a lot to be discovered, and with the currently popularization of athiesm/pop psychology and philosophy/learning what you want to learn, I can see a lot of these 2.0 generation artists (which I consider myself to be one of) learning more and more about why we have this appreciation and exploiting it to the fullest.

Creating music that moves people is a form of communication that is so special and has so much to be explored. Our perception of the outside world is completely restricted to what our senses are capable of picking up and converting into a system which we can recreate with mental models... but I really think that when we communicate with someone using music, we are able to get across incredibly complex ideas (most of which we don't really understand) by calling upon instinctual things already hardwired into our genes.

Ok we're all geeks right... Think of something like Directx. Almost all windows computers these days have this set of code. When a game (or whatever) want's to do something common, it calls upon this set of code to generate that particular effect rather than having to include it in its own source... it's the same with the kind of communication music gets across. Here's simple set of instructions that result in a huge electrical reaction in your brain... it does it in my brain so chances are it will in yours as well (with slightly different outcomes depending on what's stored in your memory as being associated with that particular reaction)

Now I'm not nearly as qualified in science/psych/philosophy as some of you are, and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of valid points , but I think it's so blatantly obvious that this is the kind of future music is going to have on the human race.

When I sit there for countless hours crafting a particular sound that gets across a particular feeling the last thing I want is for it to be branded, marketed and then restricted to only those who can afford it, I think that's bloody awful!

I've run a donation option on my website every since I began giving me music away (from the start) and I think it works very well. Those who want to pay can, and those who do not, do not, without having to feel like they are breaking the law.

The sooner money (from sales) and middle men become eradicated from the link between the producer's mind and the listeners mind, the sooner people can start creating truly magnificent and commercially undistorted masterpieces that help us discover who we are, where we came from and where we are going.
Image

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:37 pm

COSM wrote: The sooner money (from sales) and middle men become eradicated from the link between the producer's mind and the listeners mind, the sooner people can start creating truly magnificent and commercially undistorted masterpieces that help us discover who we are, where we came from and where we are going.
8O That's a inspiring statement! :D

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:39 pm

ethios4 wrote:
COSM wrote: The sooner money (from sales) and middle men become eradicated from the link between the producer's mind and the listeners mind, the sooner people can start creating truly magnificent and commercially undistorted masterpieces that help us discover who we are, where we came from and where we are going.
8O That's a inspiring statement! :D
now can I fucking say that I've been waiting for this for 20 years??!?! :)

smutek
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Post by smutek » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:31 am

nebulae wrote:
ethios4 wrote:
COSM wrote: The sooner money (from sales) and middle men become eradicated from the link between the producer's mind and the listeners mind, the sooner people can start creating truly magnificent and commercially undistorted masterpieces that help us discover who we are, where we came from and where we are going.
8O That's a inspiring statement! :D
now can I fucking say that I've been waiting for this for 20 years??!?! :)
+3

Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:58 am

Hey, I'd like to recommend this site (by an ex-pat Kiwi living in the UK) I'm finding it very informative...

http://newmusicstrategies.com/

And especially, download his free e-book here:

http://newmusicstrategies.com/ebook

Good stuff!
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COSM
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Post by COSM » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:56 am

Thanks mate this site is a good read, It's managed to keep me inside on the nicest day so far this summer.
2. Hear / Like / Buy: It’s the golden rule. People hear music, then they like music, then they buy music. It’s the only order it can happen in. If you try to do it in any other sequence, it just won’t work.
:lol:
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COSM
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Post by COSM » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:13 am

I'm just going to whip another +100 onto how good I think that link is.
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forge
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Post by forge » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:47 am

nowtime wrote: I somtimes wonder if the splintering of the "hit market" into thousands of mini-markets, although seemingly good for up-and-coming musicians, was not helped along by "the man" in order to keep mass-movements more controllable. Who knows. But the end result of the collapse of the music industry? Keeping almost all of the artist/musician/rebellious types very broke, with no chance of ever getting massive exposure, and having to fight hard to create and maintain local or regional followings. There are some brilliant some super-talented and intelligent outspoken writer/singer/shaman kids (of which there are probably hundreds at the genius level- I know a few) , whom the world will never know, and this is a dis-service to audiences, and to the artists. But it serves "the man", I imagine.

The old way (mass market vs today's niche markets) could serve the great P.R/Advertising/Propaganda Machine better, because everyone is tuned into the same message at the same time, and there's alot of enrgy there. But the wild card for them is that there is then alot of energy in the unification of the rebellious sector, too.

As far as mini-niche-markets being good for us musicians, I wonder what the numbers really are.
I'm not sure that bleak view that these people will never "make it" is that accurate though really - I'm really coming round to the idea that there are more opportunities than ever, but they are no longer the big glamourous instant fame models where you sign your life away to 'the man' then he makes you into a demi-god

I think it's about time musicians had that egocentric self-importance knocked out of them anyway

I think these genius types you talk about are more likely to be their own worst enemy as is often the case

the fact is if you want a career as a musician then it is there but it requires adapting to the new model and understanding that you can no longer sell 1 platinum album and be rich overnight, instead you have to work one day at a time for years, like anyone else on the planet, to build your business, raise your profile and turn those hours into dollars

it also requires properly re-evaluating what it actually is that you want out of it

if it's to just make a living doing what you love and get it to pay your way around the world, then that is totally possible for anybody

just ask pitch black! ;-)

the ones who make it in music are simply the ones that keep going...and going....and going......

that's why it's a good idea to keep the same name - eventually people will remember it, and then one day when you've given up on trying to be something you will write a truly influential album and sell 50k copies (the numbers are smaller, but you'll get to keep it yourself and it will mean more) and then do sell out tours

musicians now have to earn money by playing live and selling merch probably moreso than recorded music, but that doesnt mean you cant do all 3 - and more (soundtracks, ads, licensing...etc)

the music industry is healthier than it has ever been, it is the old record industry that is dying

forge
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Post by forge » Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:56 pm

just to update - I think Angstrom posted the www.newmusicstrategies.com link and it has led me to this article: http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/10/2 ... revisited/

the article itself is interesting, but what is more interesting is the debate that follows

and thanks Pitch Black fro the original links - it's very timely for an assignment and has been a great read!

forge
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Post by forge » Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:27 am

ha ha - another update...

this is funny - Wired's editor started a PR firm war by blocking PR spammers and publishing the list of blocked emails: http://www.longtail.com/the_long_tail/

kent_sandvik
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Post by kent_sandvik » Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:50 pm

The litle I've seen of the long tail and music so far is that it's never been easier in the history to publish music, and never the hardest to make any money on published music. --Kent

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