OT: The End of Suburbia

[Homebelly]

[
The word Suburbia refers to a very broad range of expressions of the way that many cultures have dveloped over time. What we, You and I that is, have here in NZ is in some respects quite different to the expressions of suburbia in other parts of the world.

New Zealands development, and especially Auckland and in some ways Wellington and Christchurch, is a perfect example of planned urban sprawl and the creation of suburban 'communities', and there are plenty of examples of these,, Takapuna,, Glenfield,, Glen dowie,, glen eden,, just about every where out west until you get to the Waitakaries.

NZ has always had the luxury of space,, this is where the whole idea of the 1/4 acre section comes from,, it was part of the promise and lure offered to my parents generation when they immigrated here after the war. It was a very well devised plan on the part of the English and NZ commonwealth governments set up to highlight the stark contrast between living in the Urban mess of England's big and industrialized cities and the idyllic setting of a lush green environment with in easy road and rail access to the work centers,, the enticement was made all the more sweeter by offering guaranteed subsidized housing. In order to fulfill this obligation some of the older inner city 'suburbs' such as Ponsonby in Auckland and New Town in wellington where built up and expanded until they started to encroach to close to the older more established and more affluent areas. At that point they moved out of the city areas and started building all of the places like Howick in Auckland and the places i grew up around wellington,, Porirua, Cannons creak, Tawa, Whitby, and then out over the hills to the Hutt Vally.

What i think zstowasser post is alluding to,, and more closer the Video from TED,, is that these places have not lived up to the promise and have, in fact, become the problem. I must admit i'm a little drunk right now having had an end of week BBQ and beer afternoon at work so it could be that we are taking in parallels right now,, but part of my point is this,, NZ's version of post WW2 suburbia is very much in step with all the variants you will find in the US, the UK Australia and other places such as South African and Canada,, it might be a little greener and maybe even sunnier,, it might also be less populated,, but the isolation, detachment from real community and the centralized shopping and utilities in very controlled and franchised environments is very much the same.

[Homebelly]

My personal view is that a version of suburbia can survive and flourish. It has to do with the growing awareness around the world that you can look to the skills and products within your community for varying amounts of sustainability. Look Local. (Still in many ways pie in the sky). Here in New Zealand I am offered Californian oranges. They taste like shit most of the time. Part of the reason they are here though is because of international trade agreements. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. They are not here because they are good. They are here because someones making a buck.

I have recently had a profound shift in my thinking about doing business. I now work from home, by myself. I used to have a factory and 12 staff in a manufacturing sector taking advantage of the international trading environment. I bought into the concept of the global market place. However, today my client base is within a 20km radius of where I live. I just sold one of my cars. Only one now. I hardly drive anywhere now. The problem is that our so called clean and green goverment, has made it significantly difficult to 'get ahead' in a reasonable way for the family unit. I have a vege garden, but its fcukin hard work and takes a heap of time. In the developed world at least, time is money.

I have no answers for the big picture. I just know that my little slice of suburbia works for me, that I am exercising some responsibilty with what I have, and that I am happy. My neighbours are a different story. I am more than willing to talk to people about what I do and why, but I do not expect anyone to follow me. Suburbia (my locale) is good for me.

This is a very interesting post,, or maybe not,, i'm still a bit drunk The version of 'suburbia' that you describe is closer to the "Traditional" suburbia. from this discription i understand your point about how, on some levels, NZ suburbia can be seen to be diferent to elsewhere.
However, where it all started to go off the rails is with the development of the shopping Mall or the strip mall, the warehouse and the big Foodtown style supermarkets,, this is in full swing here in NZ,, but is on the wane in most other places,, also the semi gated communities full of cheaply made but expensive MacMansion type housing. The idea that owning your house, when infact it is the bank that owns it,, and the illusion that it's value is increasing,, and the life lead on dept based on a monetary system that has no intrinsic value, This is where NZ is fast catching up,, there is also the super extra added bonus of the NZ "Life style block",, these are cutting into the arable land and taking away from our ever diminishing farming industry.
This is a particular area of change here in NZ that gets my butt weavel spinning.
i am a chef by day. I have cooked all over the world and NZ produce is often seen as being some of the best in the world and is often seen in the same light as French wine and cheese,, Belgian Beer,, Arabian and African coffee and so on,, all of this is in danger of disappearing as it becomes cheaper to import horrible oranges and then sell the land to developers to build more subdivisions.
As it stands right now,, with NZ's present population and it's access to sustainable farming and other reassorses we are in a good position to leave the race.
The problem here though is the same problem every where faces,, it would mean a complete and radical change on every level,, This is the part where most of our 'leaders' have adopted a head in the and technology will prevail attitude,,
But so far neither of these approaches to the problem seem to offer much hope,,

Okay,,
I'm close to a rant now,, and i'm not quite that drunk so i'll drop out of this for the time being,, there is a real danger that i could go on for pages about this stuff as it is some thing i spend a lot of time looking into,,,

[gjm]

Homebelly wrote:

it could be that we are taking in parallels right now

Yes. In some respects we are. You have described well some of the historical growth areas in New Zealand. The fact remains though that some of it was not planned, it just happened. My family home, the one I grew up in is 12 mins drive from Auckland CBD. When I was a kid there were blocks of land around our house used for agriculture. I worked afterschool in green houses picking tomatoes. ALL of this land in the present day has been sold to developers who stuck varying types of houses and duplexes on them. There is not very much order to them, they are not pretty, but they made somebody shit loads of money.

The concept of suburbia as the feeder pathways to the CBD and the industrial areas fit perfectly the history of NZ. You will notice however in my earlier post that I stated that a revised version of suburbia needs to be implimented. I am not saying that what exists should stay.

However, where it all started to go off the rails is with the development of the shopping Mall or the strip mall, the warehouse and the big Foodtown style supermarkets

Yes I agree too.

The problem here though is the same problem every where faces,, it would mean a complete and radical change on every level

This is where is don't fully support you view. I have chosen a course of change in my direct circle of influence that does not mean going bush, becoming a hippy, preaching organic and growing dreads (gross over generalization). I have discovered concepts of community in my 'new life' that I did not see when I was trying to be 'the man' and climb the business ladder. For me, I have found that I do not have to move out of my suburb to have a happier and fulfilled life (touch wood). I had to undergo some serious internal mental shifts in the process though. Like I say, its not perfect, I am working at changes and I can see some hope.

[Homebelly]

This is where is don't fully support you view. I have chosen a course of change in my direct circle of influence that does not mean going bush, becoming a hippy, preaching organic and growing dreads (gross over generalization). I have discovered concepts of community in my 'new life' that I did not see when I was trying to be 'the man' and climb the business ladder. For me, I have found that I do not have to move out of my suburb to have a happier and fulfilled life (touch wood). I had to undergo some serious internal mental shifts in the process though. Like I say, its not perfect, I am working at changes and I can see some hope.

exactly my point though,,
you have some how managed to make that change and you have a family,, or at least a partner and kids,, that have come to that same point at the same time as you,, or have at least followed you down that path. Can you imagine all of your friends or neighbors doing the same thing? I can't,, it runs right against the grain of convention. Especially here in NZ where the kind of superficial affluence that has created a lot of the problems the US and, in some ways, the UK are now facing is just really gaining some momentum,, last year was the first year you could by a Hummvee right off the lot here in Auckland,,

Your other point about the development of suburbia sounds to me as though you are confusing the architecture and road planing with the actual planned concept. What where considered suburbs twenty or thirty years ago are now really urban areas,, this is the problem,, suburbia now has spread so far away from the cities that they serve that they have gone beyond their purpose in this regard and have gone more than a short way to creating the problems we are now having to deal with. You can see this problem first hand if you go stand on the grafton bridge,, or try and drive across the bridge every day,, Auckland is all about cars,, and most aucklanders have bought into the big car/suv as symbol of success myth.

Part of the TED video talks about having to reclaim the parking lots. If you look at house pricing most of that money is spent on the land,, the house has very little worth by it's self,, this is made worse by the fact that your house price is subsidizing the cost of being able to park right next to your local shopping mall and cinema complex and your rates and purchasing taxes are used to build bigger roads to feed these cities with the people that are having to live further and further away.
If you want to see the imbalance of that system go over to Waiheke, those people have shitty fucken roads,, power cuts every time it rains,, flooding,, no running water except what comes from a tank and dodgy unreliable phone lines,, yet they pay the same rates as Remurera???

Beyond the cell phones and designer jeans NZ lags behind almost every where else by about five years,, most NZ's are gagging for the lifestyle right here, right now,, this is why we have one of the fastest growing dept based economies in the world.
It pisses me off that every one is extolling the virtues of our clean green environment on the one hand,, but are selling us out to the overseas corporates on the other.

Okay,,,
now i am raving,,
time for bed i think,,,

[gjm]

Homebelly wrote:

Your other point about the development of suburbia sounds to me as though you are confusing the architecture and road planing with the actual planned concept.

I am not confused. Suburbia just happened. It has been present through out history in the great empires the world has seen. It happens today. It is not static though. It grows and dies. The concepts of suburban planning and the 'New Suburban' theories exist as a way to harness that which has always been in some form or fashion. Some of it is strategically planned, some of it is real loose.

Beyond the cell phones and designer jeans NZ lags behind almost every where else by about five years,, most NZ's are gagging for the lifestyle right here, right now,, this is why we have one of the fastest growing dept based economies in the world.

I don't think we lag behind that much at all when it comes to material possesions. We definatly don't have the choice that other countries have, thats for sure, and our buying power is less than other countries. But as you have correctly stated, we definatly have a national consumer debt problem. This however has nothing to do with living in suburbia. It has everything to do with China coming on line and our strong NZ dollar. Match this with very successful marketing plans, cheap credit, little financial education and the Americanisation of our culture and you have a recipie for trouble.

you have some how managed to make that change and you have a family,, or at least a partner and kids,, that have come to that same point at the same time as you,, or have at least followed you down that path. Can you imagine all of your friends or neighbors doing the same thing? I can't,, it runs right against the grain of convention.

I can't imagine it either. Thats why I don't talk much about it. I am sure some of my neighbours think I might be doing something illegal..."why the fcuk doesn't he go to work like I do..." What I have discovered though is that if I look hard enough there are opportunities all around me to quietly make changes. I have decided not to get on the band wagon of naysayers and bitch about it. (Not suggesting you are bitchn either.) You can, inside suburbia, take steps toward making things better. I just got to make sure that my actions are louder than my words.

[zstowasser]

Great posts guys, thanks for giving me some insight into what's going on in NZ. My impression was a beautiful green landscape.. sad to hear that it is being americanized!

The debt problem is another crisis we're in. Have you guys seen "Money as Debt" that shows the problems of fractional-reserve banking and how money is created from debt. That without debt, we would have no money? Some serious crises are looming on the horizon due to our inflated economies..

http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... money.html

Does NZ have a central bank like the US with the federal reserve ? (neither federal and has no reserves!)

And for solutions, we will need to do what we can, but it will take the community coming together for real change to happen. But first we must start to look at your lifestyles and mentally prepare to downsize. That's the hard part. We're so used to this way of life that many can't even imagine another way. Food just shows up at the grocery store. You pay your taxes. Fill up at the gas station. Work for the man. Watch your TV. Drink some Beer. Go to sleep. Start over.

I hope the peak oil / energy crisis / suburbia debate can become part of the mass consciousness, so we can start to have some real change. However, I'm afraid it may take a crisis to get people to wake up. I hope we can start talking and change BEFORE.. but I'm doubtful. Best to help your friends and family and community and band together, talk, philosophize and plan for the future.

Would be a good idea to stock up on food & water just in case of a supply shortage (or maybe a longer crisis?).

Then plant a bunch of fruit & nut trees. Buy and support local farmers and ranchers making free-range and grass-fed meats. Stop shopping at wal-mart, etc, don't buy plastic shit that you don't need...

[Homebelly]

Uban sprawl"Just happened" and happened in a random and almost chaotic way. If you want to see how bad and out of control that was take a look at the history of London, Paris or Rome. The use of the word 'suburb', your right, has been in use to describe any number of concepts since way before the 50's. The point that i am trying to make is that the concept of a strictly planned "Suburbia" that has developed beyond it's usefulness to the point that it has become detrimental in it's current design is very much how NZ has developed over the last 40/30 years. It might not seem quite that way as our cities are a lot smaller and thinly populated. and so we get to have the ruralfication aspect of suburban design happen a lot closer to the cities the suburb serves.

We most certainly do lag behind the rest of the world,, well,, at least the parts we most identify with ie the UK and the US. There are many areas that NZ is way ahead of the pack in,, but the general attitude of the herd is very much about five years behind. This is the guts of my opinion on this whole topic as it applies to NZ.
We have only just recently really started to develop the whole concept of decentralized isolationist living and the creation of 'planned communities' that are serviced by the super mall, Albany in Auckland is the prime example of this. The shopping mall, the education area, the industrial area, all of them separated by functional barriers that usually take the form of a freeway,,
The idea of real community is not that far back in our collective memory that it can't be evoked and re instituted. The proposal being put forward by the alternative thinkers is the same concept as the NZ high street,, this is an area that NZ should exploit now and would fulfill its claim to be a clean green environment.

[/quote]
I can't imagine it either. Thats why I don't talk much about it. I am sure some of my neighbours think I might be doing something illegal..."why the fcuk doesn't he go to work like I do..." What I have discovered though is that if I look hard enough there are opportunities all around me to quietly make changes. I have decided not to get on the band wagon of naysayers and bitch about it. (Not suggesting you are bitchn either.) You can, inside suburbia, take steps toward making things better. I just got to make sure that my actions are louder than my words.[/quote]

See,, now this is where we are talking in parallels,, this is how the whole of NZ should be thinking,, our differences in this thread are based on the concept of suburbia and it's shape. I've seen, and lived in, that night mare in both the UK and US and also, to a lesser extent, in Australia. Here in NZ my sisters family and my Brothers family are both living in versions of the US modeled 'planned community' shape that is replacing the more traditional idea of 40's and 50's inspired planning. The issue here is the exploitation of real estate pricing and maximizing land size to accommodate increasing house sizes so that we reach the point where we are almost at where by the house is almost as big as the section and the development it's self has become urban rather than suburban but lacks the amenities close by to serve it. This then forces us to get in our cars to go buy milk, which in turn requires that there be available parking to host those cars, and the conduits to run those cars along to get there,, all of this is carving up the country side and forcing the points of supply further and further away and also limits the population of these high density planned communities from being able to fully supliment their needs as they simply don't have the garden space to do so.

Part of the point being made in the TED video is that at the point of peak oil all of these expensive properties will loose their value,, at that point every thing else will loose it's value also as real estate has become the new Gold in so far as it is the only thing that any of us "Own" that has any actual intrinsic value. Our FIAT money and the debt it creates is completely abstract and arbitrary.

This is the point i think NZ could lead the pack. We need to stop this style of development and go back t the model of a self serving small high street based model, find ways to encourage our qualified people to stay in NZ and so slow down our need for immigration to fill the gaps created by those people leaving. And we also need to encourage the diaspora that has left to go to oz, under the misguided illusion that it's some how better over there, to come back.

The connection to peak oil is interesting as it's real importance is quite often passed by. When this concept is talked about in the media it is usually discussed or debated as an isolated issue, when in fact it is one failing aspect along side many other failing aspects in our model of society. This is what is meant by radical change,, it isn't enough to find an alternative fuel, the premise behind that idea is that the alternative fuel/fuels will fill the gap left behind by the dwindling cheap oil options and the rest of the system will remain the same and continue to grow,, this is the consumerist ideal.

Personally i don't buy into this scenario. I feel that at some point all of the issues are going to need to be addressed including our dependence on oil based transport and utilities, our concept of purchase and need, how we interact with other members of our communities and how we communicate across the globe as a whole. all of these issues are at the crux of radical change,,

[Homebelly]

Great posts guys, thanks for giving me some insight into what's going on in NZ. My impression was a beautiful green landscape.. sad to hear that it is being americanized!

Oh god!!
I hope i haven't painted to grim a picture,,
Your impression is still intact. My concern is that there seems to be every indication that NZ could become the growers market for Asia in the same way that the mid west and much of south America has become for the US,, under those circumstances then the Beautiful green land scape could well become fields of corn and our coastal flat lands may well become the feed lots.
There is already talk of a pan Asian economy similar to the EU model.
I also think the Canada/US/Mexico union will be an actual reality along with the amero.
That will probably take ten years or so to implement if the model set by the Euro is any indication,, after that, or maybe along side,, the Asian union will be set up.
I hope i'm wrong on this opinion,, but i just can't not see it happening unless we shake of this idea of expanding economies based on potential earnings and debt based economies.
But thats a hard cell,,
We loves our shiny things that we can buy each and every time there is a new "Improvement". I even love the irony of us being taught that we should sell our less environmentally friendly non-recyclable stuff and replace it with the newer improved environmentally friendly alternative so that we can superficially be seen to be green, when most often these replacements are twice as big as their predecessors, and also create the next problem of where to put all of the waste. Now thats a genius piece of marketing.

If your interested in how that aspect was set up to work go look up Edward Berneys,,

[zstowasser]

Ya Edward Bernays is the father of propaganda! "Torches of Freedom"!

We definitely need to move beyond consumerism and the mentality that having more or buying something will bring happiness. things do not bring happiness because they can be lost or break. This leads to fear and anxiety. Which leads to control, anger and violence.

We need to collectively move towards sustainability, localization and spiritually towards enlightenment or some variation of that. "happiness comes from within", also change comes from within. we need to look inside of ourselves and change first, then work together with our community for solutions to this massive problem. our way of life cannot go on forever. we must change.

[gjm]

Homebelly wrote:

Oh god!!
I hope i haven't painted to grim a picture,,
Your impression is still intact.

Yes. Thanks HB for making this clear.

The point that i am trying to make is that the concept of a strictly planned "Suburbia" that has developed beyond it's usefulness to the point that it has become detrimental in it's current design is very much how NZ has developed over the last 40/30 years.

I agree totally. The point I'm trying to make is that this is true everywhere. Suburbia, again, "Just Happens." It falls apart not because some well thought out 40 year old plan no longer applies, it falls apart because the drive for property and commercial consumer development entice people to upgrade. The irony is that if you create some New Urbanism model it will suffer the same fate. Things loose their shinny details fairly soon. There will always be some 'new' new urbanism system that is over priced at the beginning because of supply and demand principles. These things 99/100 appeal to the intellectual/philosophical and financial elite which will exclude the regular Joe. All he is left with is filling in the gaps left behind by the people who move on to bigger and better, both in quality and quantity. Its a cycle that will always happen, and it will disadvantage the poorly educated and the those with limited finances.

We most certainly do lag behind the rest of the world,, well,, at least the parts we most identify with ie the UK and the US. There are many areas that NZ is way ahead of the pack in,, but the general attitude of the herd is very much about five years behind. This is the guts of my opinion on this whole topic as it applies to NZ.
We have only just recently really started to develop the whole concept of decentralized isolationist living and the creation of 'planned communities' that are serviced by the super mall, Albany in Auckland is the prime example of this. The shopping mall, the education area, the industrial area, all of them separated by functional barriers that usually take the form of a freeway,,

Yes, you are right in respect of the philosophies of "decentralized isolationist living." I recently returned from a month in Vancouver Canada. I lived there through the 90's and was surprised to see the growth since then. My lasting impression of this recent visit was the display of wealth compared to my spot here in NZ. I estimate that the general cost of living is about 25% cheaper there. I was seriously contemplating moving back. But upon my return I was reminded of what I have here. I am staying put.

My concern is that there seems to be every indication that NZ could become the growers market for Asia in the same way that the mid west and much of south America has become for the US,, under those circumstances then the Beautiful green land scape could well become fields of corn and our coastal flat lands may well become the feed lots.

It was recently announced that NZ's biggest Dairy company is now the biggest in the world.

zstowasser wrote:

We definitely need to move beyond consumerism and the mentality that having more or buying something will bring happiness.

Sorry, but I fundamentally disagree. I have a wife and 3 boys. At one point in my life we were so on the bones of our asses that my wife did all of our laundry in the bath tub. Try doing laundry for 5 people this way and stay on top of it. It gave me GREAT pleasure to buy my german made front loader washing machine. It brought GREAT happiness to my wife. The follow on effects were also Great We also lived for a period of time in a house the size of a small two car garage. It gave me GREAT pleasure and happiness to upgrade this to my current 30 year old dwelling. The benefits for morale in general have been HUGE. Buying things DOES bring happiness.

Your statement is just plain stupid... if you don't go ahead and qualify 'Happiness.' The most profound question I have been faced with over the last 2 years has been this: When is enough, enough? Finding an answer to this question can go alot further towards happiness than rejecting consumerism. I have decided that one vehicle is enough for me. But to say that I can't look to upgrade it, or get a better version dosen't wash. If I decide I need a 7-8 seater 4WD, big 4 small 6 cylinder type vehicle because its the best all round vehicle for our family of 5 people, two dogs etc, then shut the fuck up about my choice. Its enough for us at the present. But if I had 3 of them, one for the wife, one for me and one for the oldest boy, then yes thats a different story.

[zstowasser]

gjm - your hostility worries me. It looks like you have some spiritual growing to do.

consumerism - I agree that a dishwasher, oven, washing machine, fan, bed, chairs, etc bring happiness and are "needed". however, our lifestyles, especially the American Lifestyle, is built upon buying things we don't need, and throwing them away for more new things we don't need. It becomes wasteful. If we are to be sustainable, we will need to rethink our motivations for society. We should be motivated for the lasting good of society, not for short sighted individualistic consumer greed.

Look up the definition of consumerism on wikipedia. Anti-consumerism is about excess material possessions, not shelter or tools. Check it out - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism

I found a cool new urbanism / pedestrianism film! It has my hero James in it (heh). This guy takes a ghetto and re-designs it into a place worth living in. Not sure how to watch the film or get the dvd yet, but the preview was good!

http://www.newurbancowboy.com

[beats me]

Here's an answer for ya: Stop letting anybody and everybody make babies. Mandatory reversible sterilization and tube tying at birth that can only be undone through a very elaborate qualification process by both parents. Then maybe the sprawl will stop and the raping of the planet's resources. I don't care how harsh that sounds. It needs to be done for so many reasons. Why is creating life looked at as one of the most basic of rights when it is in fact probably the most dangerous thing you can do with very little effort.

[zstowasser]

Eugenics is not the answer.

Populations in western countries are entering stable or negative growth rates!

3rd world countries population growth is slowing as they move from rural areas into the cities. Our population growth is slowing. We should focus on education and birth control, not forced sterilization. It is very important to retain liberty - let people learn to be responsible for their lives and their communities.

This TED presentation argues that Squatter Ctiies are a good thing for the developing world as it slows population growth and everyone has a job. http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/123

[Homebelly]

zstowasser wrote:

We definitely need to move beyond consumerism and the mentality that having more or buying something will bring happiness.

Sorry, but I fundamentally disagree. I have a wife and 3 boys. At one point in my life we were so on the bones of our asses that my wife did all of our laundry in the bath tub. Try doing laundry for 5 people this way and stay on top of it. It gave me GREAT pleasure to buy my german made front loader washing machine. It brought GREAT happiness to my wife. The follow on effects were also Great We also lived for a period of time in a house the size of a small two car garage. It gave me GREAT pleasure and happiness to upgrade this to my current 30 year old dwelling. The benefits for morale in general have been HUGE. Buying things DOES bring happiness.

Your statement is just plain stupid... if you don't go ahead and qualify 'Happiness.' The most profound question I have been faced with over the last 2 years has been this: When is enough, enough? Finding an answer to this question can go alot further towards happiness than rejecting consumerism. I have decided that one vehicle is enough for me. But to say that I can't look to upgrade it, or get a better version dosen't wash. If I decide I need a 7-8 seater 4WD, big 4 small 6 cylinder type vehicle because its the best all round vehicle for our family of 5 people, two dogs etc, then shut the fuck up about my choice. Its enough for us at the present. But if I had 3 of them, one for the wife, one for me and one for the oldest boy, then yes thats a different story.

He isn't talking about buying for need or convenience,, he is talking about buying to fill the void of emptiness and inadequacy that is being fed and maintained in us every day by our corporate owned and sponsored media. This type of advertising and crowd control is every where,, its all the more obvious here in NZ as the media pool is a lot shallower and not nearly as well stocked with clever fish as it is in the US/EU. Part of this parody is the Lotto game,, NZrs are falling for this one every week,, its also why places like sky city are so successful. All of these ruses work because they promise and then fulfill that promise of a quick pleasure fix. But then they go a head and break that promise not because the original fix is redundant,, but because it has been superseded by the latest advancements. That would be okay too, if it where true,, the problem is it isn't true. What we really get is the same shit painted a different color,, an advancement is going from a horse and carriage to the internal combustion engine.
in my opinion going from that to a turbo charged V6 hummvee or SUV just so you can be protected on the road from all the other H3'S and SUV's is a step back.

You have made the change,,
even if you don't fully realize it you have made consumerism your tool and you have stopped being it's slave. The issue now is how do we advocate that change in every one? Its not about taking the tools away,, its about learning to reuse them in some other way while at the same time readdress the balance of how we move about inside of, and utilize our environment.
Some thing all modern western societies seem to have forgotten at a fundamental level is that we are all living for the future. We should not be living for the now, but should be preparing the way for those that come next and dreaming about and planning for a better future for them, while at the same time, having respect for those that came before us,, that is the true essence of community. The way things stand right now means that all our grand children are really likely to inherit is the shit we leave behind and the debts we are creating. not only as individuals, but as a culture on the whole. Thats where the sacrifice has to be on our part,, it's also where i start loose faith as the present reality is s well indoctrinated that it has become part of the norm,,,

[Sibanger]

Sorry, but I fundamentally disagree. I have a wife and 3 boys. At one point in my life we were so on the bones of our asses that my wife did all of our laundry in the bath tub. Try doing laundry for 5 people this way and stay on top of it. It gave me GREAT pleasure to buy my german made front loader washing machine. It brought GREAT happiness to my wife. The follow on effects were also Great We also lived for a period of time in a house the size of a small two car garage. It gave me GREAT pleasure and happiness to upgrade this to my current 30 year old dwelling. The benefits for morale in general have been HUGE. Buying things DOES bring happiness.

Your statement is just plain stupid... if you don't go ahead and qualify 'Happiness.' The most profound question I have been faced with over the last 2 years has been this: When is enough, enough? Finding an answer to this question can go a lot further towards happiness than rejecting consumerism. I have decided that one vehicle is enough for me. But to say that I can't look to upgrade it, or get a better version dosen't wash. If I decide I need a 7-8 seater 4WD, big 4 small 6 cylinder type vehicle because its the best all round vehicle for our family of 5 people, two dogs etc, then shut the fuck up about my choice. Its enough for us at the present. But if I had 3 of them, one for the wife, one for me and one for the oldest boy, then yes thats a different story.

It's so hard to be practical these days. lol Damn those breeders!
I have two young kids and live in a small, but comfortable 30 year old home. By the 'latest standards', it would be considered too small and substandard, but it is enough. By living, we are all contributing to the problem of stress on the worlds resources. By turning on your computer, you are contributing to the problem.
Get spiritual, turn off your computers and kill yourselves now!