well said, claudek. It is seriously high time for some changing of the guard in Washington. They only way to do that is for the younger generation to give a shit and then act on it and vote. Therein lies the problem, there is such apathy and hatin' on the US government that it seems a lot of the youth are just "over it" and either stop caring, or just think the whole thing is corrupt and conspiracy theory this and that and skulls and bones and blah blah blah. Or "I'll move away if W gets re-elected"--why not be proactive instead of reactive and go support Kerry or whoever you want?
Reguardless of percieved corruption and outlandish conspiracy theories, if the youth of america don't start getting involved AND voting, we are destined to continue status quo. I mean damn, W is getting tougher on marijuana--that is a blantant sign that Washington is totally out of sync with the majority of Americans, especially the youth. This should be a wake up call to all of the shit-talking, conspiracy believing, government hating us citizens--put up or shut up--the majority of these people don't vote cause they are so jaded, but if they actually carried through on their thoughts by voting, we could see a change.
F•CK George Bush!!!
-
Guest
There are always people who hate the current president, conservatives in this country were seething against Clinton fo, um, um, um, maybe making some possibly illegal money out of a real estate deal?, no? Or um, um , um ,getting a bj?
But I think Bush has brought the wraith of more people across the world out of arrogance than any US leader in history. There are even some conservative Kerry backers popping up.
I used to think I didn't want Bob Dole, but hell I would take Bob Dole or John McCain any day over the hate goober.
I don't think he is anything like as bad as Saddam Hussein, but who knows what he would do with as much power and control as Hussein had?
But I think Bush has brought the wraith of more people across the world out of arrogance than any US leader in history. There are even some conservative Kerry backers popping up.
I used to think I didn't want Bob Dole, but hell I would take Bob Dole or John McCain any day over the hate goober.
I don't think he is anything like as bad as Saddam Hussein, but who knows what he would do with as much power and control as Hussein had?
-
Guest
yeah, that the thing that sucks, and you can see it in international media and forums like these--to an alarming degree, the international community judges all americans by our government and jackass president, assuming that we all think and act like that, or that we all support him. It sucks that he has tarnished out international image that bad, to the point where lots of internationally travelling americans say they are from canada, just to avoid getting an earful from whoever. Listen up world, just cause our leader is a tool doesn't mean we are. C'mon, that is sillyness. Lets be slower to judge in general, especially simply based on one's country. Everyone is different, and deserves a fair shake, not pigeonholing into a stereotype.
-
Guest
I hear you, but with a defeatist attitude like that, who else is going to be elected but Bush??? Sadly, like most everything in our country, capitalism is at the root, and voting is no different. The rich and powerful with lots of money to gain/lose definitely get out and vote republican, while the people who know whats up and care about things other than money often bitch and moan but are two jaded, defeatist, or apathetic to vote and AT LEAST TRY to make a difference. hindsight is 20/20, but clearly if a few hundred thousand hipsters in FL set the bong aside for the afternoon and went out and voted in 2000, the world would be a different place (but AL Gore would still be a total tool). Believe it or not, people can make a difference, and every vote counts. Its our civic duty, dammit, and people need to perform it, not just voting for pres. either, but for local and state officials that are solid--those are the ones that really end up impacting your daily life more that the current white house resident.
Ryan
Ryan
-
special ed
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:52 am
- Location: the outer heavens
its true that every government is corrupt, but its only amerikkka that is dropping bombs killing innocent babies, women and children, then they have the fucking audacity to write it off as COLLATERAL DAMAGE. as far as voting in amerikkka goes, who the fuck is anyone supposed to for? the evil that we know or the evil that we dont know? also as found out in our last election, our votes dont even fucking count. the whole electorial vote system has made it that way. as far as people like saddam go, i just ask this...WHO THE FUCK PUT HIM THERE AND GAVE HIM HIS WEAPONS? when daddy bush was head of the cia in the 60's he helped to stage plenty of political coups around the world, in fact it was america, uk and israel that supported putting idi amin into power in uganda, only to then change their public opinions, and finance an oppostition. america creates civil unrest all over the world, just to convince people that their "help" is needed, they then go there and exploit it. THAT IS THE AMERICAN WAY. look at the fucking history of amerikkka. slavery and genocide, and we are the "good guys"? for the most part the people from the us on this forum have their heads out of their asses and can see whats really going on, but the thing is, ITS THE FUCKING MINORITY IN AMERICA. americans in general are ignorant fucks, how do i know? i live with them, i went to school with them, i work with them. there is a part of me that hates them, mind you though, i am only speaking of the typical cop/criminal/conformist types of people that make up this "great country" (sarcasm) there are too many people with no identity that just go with whatever they are told to, just so they can feel like they are a part of something, its called insecurity, and given how the media and entertainment commercialism culture is, the people behind the scenes are intentionally doing that. it starts with the headstart programs and its "education" system, it is their objective for the state to basically raise the children while both parents work, so they can mold their minds and personallities a specific way. those behind the scenes understand how psychology works and they are perfectly executing their plan, and they are spreading the disease worldwide. IN REALITY ALL THIS COUNTRY IS, IS THE REBUILT ROMAN EMPIRE, all hail ceasar.
one more thing, i understand this is a musical forum, but politics and music go hand in hand, in a world where there is so much injustice and the truth is obscurred, it takes people with voices such as musicians to speak out. SO DONT HATE ON THESE POLITICIZED POSTS, IF YOU HAVE SOME TRUTH TO GIVE THE WORLD, AND YOU DONT DO IT, THEN YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS PEOPLE LIKE BUSH, BECAUSE IN ESSENCE, IT IS JUST KEEPING IT A LIARS WORLD, ONLY YOU KNOW BETTER. bottom line: whoever keeps whining about political posts, shut up and give up music, because you dont understand its purpose and the power it yields.
one more thing, i understand this is a musical forum, but politics and music go hand in hand, in a world where there is so much injustice and the truth is obscurred, it takes people with voices such as musicians to speak out. SO DONT HATE ON THESE POLITICIZED POSTS, IF YOU HAVE SOME TRUTH TO GIVE THE WORLD, AND YOU DONT DO IT, THEN YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS PEOPLE LIKE BUSH, BECAUSE IN ESSENCE, IT IS JUST KEEPING IT A LIARS WORLD, ONLY YOU KNOW BETTER. bottom line: whoever keeps whining about political posts, shut up and give up music, because you dont understand its purpose and the power it yields.
I understand your frustration, but we are hardly living in the rebuilt roman empire--I won't even bother to go into how radically different our societies are in terms of morals, government, and military. I also don't think that the majority of americans are stupid sheep that are being blindly led along. I think that because we live in such a big country, with only two neighboring countries, one of which is very similar, that most americans are somewhat isolated in their world perspective. I would venture to say that the majority of americans have never even been to a foreign country (canada no included). Many people can't afford international travel, and many people just love the US, their hometown, their state. This makes for a society that generally doesn't really understand or relate to other cultures and nations, and one that is definitely spoonfed by the media and government--we are a captive audience in this big, isolated country. That said, its hard to get too worked up about international concerns when you're a middle class person raising a family in middle america, just trying to work to make ends meet and have enough time for family, friends, maybe even some music. I guess whereas you might view people as conformist products of a system, I look more at face value and see that they are happy in their world, reguardless if it is somewhat of a charade. I don't think all americans (or people of any society) have the time, intelligence, and passion to get worked up about politics and international concerns. Lots of people just live day to day, paycheck to paycheck, and have all to much on their plates at that. If everyone was a conspiracy theorist and distrustful of the government and didn't vote cause they think its fixed anyway, our country would turn to shit. And btw, america didn't invent slavery, and we certainly weren't the only ones doing it.
-
special ed
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 9:52 am
- Location: the outer heavens
if people here in america just simply stuck to there backyard barbeques and beer parties, that would be fine, i understand your point about people here being too busy with their lives to be concerned with the strife of othe nations. BUT, they dont stick to their own lives, they intrude and impose on poorer nataions, so they can exploit them for their resorces, just so they can have their comfortable back yard parties. an american family is not minding their own business when their children are dropping bombs on iraqi families. look at how many families across the world have been destroyed just so an american family can prosper, look at iraq, look at palestine. the intervention of america in those areas, proves that the people here are not staying out of the politics in other regions. they are not as isolated as they think, this is a global community whether we choose to accept that or not, if the tires and the oil that we use for our cars are coming from africa, south america, and the middle east. and the people in those countries are living hand to mouth, while we glutton ourselves here... then there is something wrong in which everyone of us has a responsiblity. the spirit in which america thrives on is that of which the roman empire thrives on as well, its just that there are a couple of cosmetic changes, thats all. you are right, we did not invent slavery, but we capitalized on it probably more than any other nation, the european countries that had slavery were alread built by then, america wasnt, therefore making us a nation built on slavery, that said in any major city, who lives in the slums? who lives in the house on the hill? the people that physically built america are on the bottom of our social structure. i guess an analogy for america would be, MY backyard looks beautiful, I dont know where MY dogs are taking a shit, but its not in MY yard, so I guess there is no problem, MY yard looks beautiful though and I'M so proud of it.
i am not saying that i have a solution for the worlds problems, but i think if everyone was aware of them instead of being ignorant to them, we could all find a solution to them which would not require using violence.
i am not saying that i have a solution for the worlds problems, but i think if everyone was aware of them instead of being ignorant to them, we could all find a solution to them which would not require using violence.
-
eduardo especial
special ed,
well spoken, good points, I hear ya. I guess I'm trying to be somewhat optimistic. Yes, by default as citizen we share in our countries international forays, and yes, it is our nations young men who are carrying out the bidding of the republican government. But that is not to say that all of the military personnel and their families support this--MANY are opposed to it at this point. People that joined the national guard certainly weren't planning on invading Iraq, as many people who join the armed forces to pay for college or to have some sort of post high school training also didn't plan on invading Iraq for somewhat questionable reasons. I guess when I look back at the history of america in the context of world history, I don't think we are as bad as you make it out to be. Our whole country was not built by slaves, please. Slaves were mainly in the southeast states, 20 at the most. slavery ended in the mid 1800's, LONG before a lot of states were even states. And clearly the physical infrastructure and architecture in eastern cities is not still from the 1800's. In fact, lets remember that people from around the globe were flooding into america at that point in history to escape monarchical regimes, famine, lack of oppurtunity and resources, fleeing from oppression to come here to our country. And granted it wasn't then, and has never been even close to a perfect government or society--it has always been tarred by corruption and scandal since the inception. But that is not to say there haven't been great leaders and politicians--I guess I have some faith in human nature.
I see america having a legacy of freedom, democracy, and opportunity that is unparalled. Clearly we have had the longest staying governmental system in place of any existing country--that says something right there. We've had no monarchs, no hitlers,no moussilinis. People worldwide have come here and continue to come here because of our levels of freedom and opportunities--that says something. Women have rights, rasicm is not tolerated, people are free to worship whoever they please. not so in MANY countries--it is SO easy to take this for granted here, and get all up in arms when we interfere in countries that oppress women, don't tolerate religous freedom, and essentially violently force the citizens to comform to whatever mold the dictatorship wants. I'd rather a subversive brainwashing like you talked about here in the states than an out an out military regime that holds a threat of harm or death over me if I don't conform. We still have a choice here in the states to do as we please, lets hope people exercise it and oust the Bush regime. While I agree that the current regime is corrupt as hell, lets not kid ourselves into thinking other nations aren't. Also, lets not kid ourselves as to who holds the power in European countries, who lives on the hill and in the slum there--not much different from US. Also, lets not forget than Europe has way less natural resources than the US, and relies on foreign import from people "living hand to mouth" as much or more than the US. I agree, the more people in the states are aware of and take a stance on international matters, the easier it will be to get rid of Bush and to stop some of the violence
well spoken, good points, I hear ya. I guess I'm trying to be somewhat optimistic. Yes, by default as citizen we share in our countries international forays, and yes, it is our nations young men who are carrying out the bidding of the republican government. But that is not to say that all of the military personnel and their families support this--MANY are opposed to it at this point. People that joined the national guard certainly weren't planning on invading Iraq, as many people who join the armed forces to pay for college or to have some sort of post high school training also didn't plan on invading Iraq for somewhat questionable reasons. I guess when I look back at the history of america in the context of world history, I don't think we are as bad as you make it out to be. Our whole country was not built by slaves, please. Slaves were mainly in the southeast states, 20 at the most. slavery ended in the mid 1800's, LONG before a lot of states were even states. And clearly the physical infrastructure and architecture in eastern cities is not still from the 1800's. In fact, lets remember that people from around the globe were flooding into america at that point in history to escape monarchical regimes, famine, lack of oppurtunity and resources, fleeing from oppression to come here to our country. And granted it wasn't then, and has never been even close to a perfect government or society--it has always been tarred by corruption and scandal since the inception. But that is not to say there haven't been great leaders and politicians--I guess I have some faith in human nature.
I see america having a legacy of freedom, democracy, and opportunity that is unparalled. Clearly we have had the longest staying governmental system in place of any existing country--that says something right there. We've had no monarchs, no hitlers,no moussilinis. People worldwide have come here and continue to come here because of our levels of freedom and opportunities--that says something. Women have rights, rasicm is not tolerated, people are free to worship whoever they please. not so in MANY countries--it is SO easy to take this for granted here, and get all up in arms when we interfere in countries that oppress women, don't tolerate religous freedom, and essentially violently force the citizens to comform to whatever mold the dictatorship wants. I'd rather a subversive brainwashing like you talked about here in the states than an out an out military regime that holds a threat of harm or death over me if I don't conform. We still have a choice here in the states to do as we please, lets hope people exercise it and oust the Bush regime. While I agree that the current regime is corrupt as hell, lets not kid ourselves into thinking other nations aren't. Also, lets not kid ourselves as to who holds the power in European countries, who lives on the hill and in the slum there--not much different from US. Also, lets not forget than Europe has way less natural resources than the US, and relies on foreign import from people "living hand to mouth" as much or more than the US. I agree, the more people in the states are aware of and take a stance on international matters, the easier it will be to get rid of Bush and to stop some of the violence
-
logicat2001
- Posts: 159
- Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:08 pm
Someone posted this above: "I don't think he [George Bush] is anything like as bad as Saddam Hussein, but who knows what he would do with as much power and control as Hussein had?"
Do you realize how much more power Bush has than Hussein? The US of A is a World Power and dictates policy more than follows international policy.
I can't believe how people actually bought the official line that we were "bringing Democracy to Iraq" by killing the "evil doers." You can't force people to become a Democracy, it's something that has to arise out
of the population-at-large, not by virtue of a foreign government's military and occupation.
Democracy: Government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is retained and directly exercised by the people.
My goodness, I can't wait until we collectively wake up and remember exactly what that word means.
Do you realize how much more power Bush has than Hussein? The US of A is a World Power and dictates policy more than follows international policy.
I can't believe how people actually bought the official line that we were "bringing Democracy to Iraq" by killing the "evil doers." You can't force people to become a Democracy, it's something that has to arise out
of the population-at-large, not by virtue of a foreign government's military and occupation.
Democracy: Government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is retained and directly exercised by the people.
My goodness, I can't wait until we collectively wake up and remember exactly what that word means.
Leaving the country due to disliking the current president.
The largely irrelevant by now voter scandal argument.
Generalizations of whole country's? (BBQ and Beer in the backyard)
Michael Moore quotes.
Good Bush, Bad Bush.
Oil Scandal (While excluding the rest of the worlds greed for it.)
The definition of 'democracy'.
etc etc..
Jesus F'ing Christ you people are as dull and uncreative as the politicians your bitching about. Thank god you don't post your music.
Oh and people please spare all of us from posts saying:
"Are you saying anyone who quotes Michael Moore can't write music blah blah". You get my point I'm sure, move on.
The largely irrelevant by now voter scandal argument.
Generalizations of whole country's? (BBQ and Beer in the backyard)
Michael Moore quotes.
Good Bush, Bad Bush.
Oil Scandal (While excluding the rest of the worlds greed for it.)
The definition of 'democracy'.
etc etc..
Jesus F'ing Christ you people are as dull and uncreative as the politicians your bitching about. Thank god you don't post your music.
Oh and people please spare all of us from posts saying:
"Are you saying anyone who quotes Michael Moore can't write music blah blah". You get my point I'm sure, move on.
-
eduardo especial
how intellectual of you there, your arguing points are beyond brilliance. i wish i was as sharp and creative as you. im envious now.Leaving the country due to disliking the current president.
The largely irrelevant by now voter scandal argument.
Generalizations of whole country's? (BBQ and Beer in the backyard)
Michael Moore quotes.
Good Bush, Bad Bush.
Oil Scandal (While excluding the rest of the worlds greed for it.)
The definition of 'democracy'.
etc etc..
Jesus F'ing Christ you people are as dull and uncreative as the politicians your bitching about. Thank god you don't post your music.
Oh and people please spare all of us from posts saying:
"Are you saying anyone who quotes Michael Moore can't write music blah blah". You get my point I'm sure, move on.