Are hardware synths over-rated?

condra · Post by **condra** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:24 am

ALMOST every function on the Ion is available.

It is pretty easy to programme, which is cool. Its also nice to be able to fuck around with making new patches without even turning on the computer.

Still, I dunno. Meh.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:15 am

That's an awesome synth, you just need more time with it. That's kinda like buying a guitar and then going, "meh, I've got apple loops that sound better than this thing".

Or buying Ableton to DJ with and then saying "man, turntables are so much easier than this stupid program".

I've owned some REALLY nice synths over the years, and I can't really think of a time when I was instantly blown away by how they sound on the first day. Yeah you're excited and it's cool to have, but it usually takes me weeks or months of programming before I feel I start to have a handle on what something is capable of sonically.

If it bugs you that much though, I'll trade you my copy of Zebra2 for that Ion

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:25 am

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Oct04/a ... ontips.htm

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:26 am

condra wrote: By the way Machinesworking, I've heard some "real" Analogues in the flesh and to be honest, personally, I dont subscribe to the hype.

Hey no offense took. I'm not a fan of Alesis products so different strokes, but honestly it's not the way they sound alone, but the way they fit into a mix. Moog basses simply can't be beat IMO. The sound of real analogue tends to be fat, as opposed to thin like digital gear is. Unstable oscillators and chaotic low end help that out...

condra · Post by **condra** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:51 am

Cheers for the comments Tarekith. I've been playing a bit more with it tonight. The presets it comes with fairly suck ass which is a shame, but I'll probably just do what you do and delete them and get stuck into some patching.

I'll probably grow to love it. I thought Linplug Alpha sucked at first too and now I love it, so maybe it will be a similar story.

At the end of the day, I think the tactile use and quick, fun patching will win me over rather than the sound, although the phaser effect is nice, as is the fuzz effect.

Moog basses simply can't be beat IMO

Maybe not, but they can be sampled

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:55 pm

condra wrote:
Moog basses simply can't be beat IMO
Maybe not, but they can be sampled

if the song is not heavily layered, then it's still pretty evident that it's a sample over a moog playing the whole song.
But yeah, if it's buried in the mix it's not as evident.

Personally I like hardware as much as software, but my studio is small.

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:06 pm

Your reaction to the Ion sounds remarkably like mine. Didnt buy it - never will. Tend to feel the same way about Nords too.

That said, its actually a pretty good sounding VA in its way, but its not exactly overloaded with high end modern features, but it doesnt carry that price tags either.

For alot of modern sounds, I rate the Ion as being good for a small subset (at least for me), but give it time.

The presets on it are crap, so TBH am actually suprised anyone buys them - alesis are notoriously bad when it comes to preset sounds, so learn to program it - its a very accessable and easy to program synth.

I often find it can take 6 months or more for a new synth to find its place - there are exceptions - loved the Virus from the very first time I played with one (Virus B), and its still my overall most used and favourite synth now (Virus TI) that for my purposes remains completely untouched by any other hardware or software synth.

Actually I had my Radias since they became available in the UK, and still only getting into it and discovering what it can do. I went through a phase of allmost hating it and came very close to selling it - but thought give it more time and its still slowly growing on me.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:53 pm

I personally don't see a big distinction between hardware and software anymore. Softsynths have easily come of age, but to hear them in their full glory, you need a fast computer and a great soundcard with fabulous digital-to-analog converters. So it's really just a choice of preference.

Is hardware over-rated? I don't think so, but I wouldn't pay for hardware synths given the flexibility and power of softsynths. But that's just my two cents.

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:04 pm

I am wondering if I need a new sound card...

hmmm

citrik · Post by **citrik** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:51 pm

Hya Condra,

It's common that when you are starting that you might get a few synths that don't do it for you. Really it's about character. Some folks love analog, some folks love crappy digital FM style synths. It's all about the sound of a particular synth and if it is complementary to the sound you are trying to make with your music.

One of my first synths was a Nord Lead. I loved it for the first 2-3 years but eventually I felt like the character for the Nord sound was too well, Nordish. I've moved on to other things. Some plugins today are easily as "good" sounding as hardware but everything has a different sound. It just depends on what sound you are looking for. Eventually you'll find the right mix of different synths that give you a unique sound.

condra · Post by **condra** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:17 am

Thanks for all the thoughts lads. I'll spend a bit more time with it before deciding wether or not to sell it.

I've been playing with it a bit more today and had quite a lot of fun. Made some nice patches too. I can see how someone could get really fast at programming a hardware synth, to the extent that it becomes intrinsic and irreplaceable.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:48 am

nebulae wrote:I personally don't see a big distinction between hardware and software anymore. Softsynths have easily come of age, but to hear them in their full glory, you need a fast computer and a great soundcard with fabulous digital-to-analog converters. So it's really just a choice of preference.

Is hardware over-rated? I don't think so, but I wouldn't pay for hardware synths given the flexibility and power of softsynths. But that's just my two cents.

Case in point, dual 2.4Ghz Macbook pro with 4GB RAM, and a 200GB HD. RME Fireface 800 sound card. Samson Rubicon ribbon monitors, plus a subwoofer. All of the Moog emulations sound pretty good, but there's a distinct lack of chaotic motion to the oscillators, same goes for the ADSR and the filter especially. They are all pretty good, but the Moog is definitely fatter in every way.
I think for the fat fat analogue synths like the Moog and the Oberheim they still don't have it completely. Though to a degree it's a matter of taste whether you like that instability in sound, or if you think it's worth the cash.... probably wouldn't own an old moog like mine if I hadn't bought it at 17.
Though I would almost give my left nut for an Arp 2600.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:55 am

I think the argument about hardware versus software has NOTHING to do with sound quality anymore. Hands on control should be the main talking point, that's where the real differences lie. I also think a synth doesn't have to be analog to be considered good, there's a ton of stellar digital synths out there.

I'd take an Oasys over an Arp2600 or Moog anyday

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:58 am

Tarekith wrote:Hands on control

+1

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:06 am

Tarekith wrote:I think the argument about hardware versus software has NOTHING to do with sound quality anymore. Hands on control should be the main talking point, that's where the real differences lie. I also think a synth doesn't have to be analog to be considered good, there's a ton of stellar digital synths out there.

I'd take an Oasys over an Arp2600 or Moog anyday

IMO an Oasys can be modeled in software successfully. Though I'll take that back if it does the Karma morphing stuff.

Still, if I do meet you IRL one of these days and we have the time to swing by my house, I sincerely doubt you wouldn't at least put the Memorymoog on par with an Oasys. In about 2001 I got it retrofitted to send MIDI from every knob and button etc.

http://www.lintronics.de/lamm.html

I can easily say that I will never sell this thing, and that I'm glad I did it, even though it cost an ungodly amount to ship it.

Seriously, it's my one piece of gear porn as sexy or more sexy than a lemur.

Come on man! you cannot beat real wood siding!