Ableton Forum

On a side note,

The song on Jay-Z's album American Gangster "Hello Brooklyn" featuring Lil Wayne,

the beat was supposed to be made in Live (heard from the internet). Not sure if it really was though.

thesmallisbeautiful wrote:I love how people like to act like their tastes are somehow universal truths.

You like Sage Francis and think Wayne is nothing special. I disagree on both counts.

sage Francis is garbage too

thesmallisbeautiful wrote: Dipset, however, is not a major label act. They are on Koch, an indie label. They worked their way up grass roots style in NYC and North Jersey, and while they rarely make music that I'm interested in, they are "realer" hip hop than Saul, Sage and Immortal put together.

you're kidding right, maybe most people you talk to don't know what koch is but I do, and trying to pass them off as an indie label is imaginative at best, dipset did just what everybody else on koch does and thats common knowledge down to the decimal point. me and you could start a group today and have it come out on koch tomorrow.

thesmallisbeautiful wrote: Most underground stuff nowadays is made for a 90% white, upper middle class audience. The streets in NYC are not bumping immortal technique (who I like tremendously).

don't take this personal, but who are you, me or anyone else to decide that
your statement could easily be misconstrude as saying that underground hiphop is too intelligent /sophisticated for black people. but i know you are not stupid cause you said so.

also most of the music described as garbage in this thread is supported mainly by those upper class white people you talked about so..........

thesmallisbeautiful wrote:..................

Hmm.... yeah, I still can't stand Wayne, but that was some good shit you wrote there dude. Well written, well thought out, for the most part pretty on point I think.

yeah i totally agree with what he said about busy bee

starving student wrote:

thesmallisbeautiful wrote: Most underground stuff nowadays is made for a 90% white, upper middle class audience. The streets in NYC are not bumping immortal technique (who I like tremendously).

don't take this personal, but who are you, me or anyone else to decide that
your statement could easily be misconstrude as saying that underground hiphop is too intelligent /sophisticated for black people. but i know you are not stupid cause you said so.

also most of the music described as garbage in this thread is supported mainly by those upper class white people you talked about so..........

It's an interesting situation yes, but try to look at the statement you quoted objectively.

thesmallisbeautiful wrote:Most underground stuff nowadays is made for a 90% white, upper middle class audience. The streets in NYC are not bumping immortal technique.....

The first sentence may or may not be true, but the second sentence certainly is. Well, I don't know about NYC, but they sure aint bumping that shit down here in B-more.

It's all Wayne and dirty south shit, radio shit that I hate.

I think thesmall... has some valid points in that not everyone is looking for the same thing from hip hop. I mean, yeah, we all know that, but....

I've written and bitched before about my feelings. Yes, I'm a snob. I think 99.99% of the shit that is on the radio today is absolute unintelligent garbage. I, for some reason, believe that my tastes in hip hop are somehow superior to my co-workers who are rolling around the streets of West B-More tonight while I sit here in my comfortable house outside of the city.

Don't get me wrong, I'm white but I've been through it. I grew up poor and spent 5 or so years shooting dope, living in the ghettos and being a petty criminal on the east side. Point is, I didn't grow up there, but I'm not some clueless white guy either. I have a little bit of "back ground" if you will.

That said, who am I to judge others for what they listen to? I like to say I don't judge, but I think the truth is I do. Like a mother fucker. I definitely subscribe to the whole "they only listen to that shit because of the marketing" thing myself. I've probably said it a few times. And honestly, in a lot of ays I think it's true. But maybe it's not quite as sinister as I sometimes make it out to be.

Maybe my expectations of hip hop as being the vehicle to deliver and propagate a message of revolution and change to the under privledged masses of every color, every where.....

Well, while noble, maybe as an expectation it is a bit lofty.

I'm not saying I'm going to let go of that and run over to TPB and download Lil Wayne's discography, I still think it's garbage, but I learned a while ago that when I place expectations on anything I am setting myself up for some frustration. Some of the frustration I feel over the "sad state of hip hop", as I put it a while back, could be jettisoned by dropping my expectations, cuz everyone isn't in it for the same reason as me, or you, or whoever.

Dunno, in short, next time, instead of saying "Wayne sucks, how can ya'll even waste your time on that shit when you KNOW......" .. well, maybe I'll just say I ain't into Wayne and let it stay at that.

Sorry for the ramble, I quit smoking today and my head is a little weird.

but wayne does suck and you do KnoW........!

i am black
i did grow up in the ghetto
and I don't feel apologetic about saying that that shit is bullshit.
it is the last thing that the ghetto needs, it's the last thing that anybody anywhere needs.

the way i see it is this, i agree with you you're not suppose to judge people, thats cool but the goodbook don't say nothin about people judging themselves. I don't need to judge little waynes shit cause little wayne has judged his own shit and everyone knows what it's about. now if your favorite politician lived his life like little wayne then everyone would be jumpin on their asses but when it comes to mf that rhymes we gotta get all mushy, fuck that. his type of art does nothin for my people, not my dark skinned people and not my light skinned people or any of my people inbetween so.............

we both know that thesmallisbeautiful is an intelligent dude, thats no reason to feel guilty about waynes garbage, if you did that you'd have to apply the same logic to the life you see out there in baltimore where you work, and you know that's some bullshit so just because you put it on a record don't mean it don't stink.

and i just thought it was funny how thesmallisbeautiful said that underground hiphop is for upper class white people when most of the people that spend cash on little wayne and the like are upper class white people, so i would say that means that little wayne is for upper class white folks since thats whos making him rich .so while they might not be bumpin imortal tech where he is, they are where i am, and they bump the other too they bump hiphop and rap music in los angeles. but really smutek if we don't let cops, and politicians get away with bringing down the community then why do we need to let rappers bring down the community, it just sounds funny style to me.

cmreal04 wrote:Well everyone's entitled to there opinion, but lolipop was #1 around the globe for a reason, any one who's any one wants to to ge him on there tracks for a reason.


thelike5

Why you rolling your eye's, if you make anything even remotely as good in your entire existence, will be a miracle.

CM

Yeah, aspiring to Little Wayne status should be my new goal. Fuck trying this production shit. I'm already thin enough... maybe I can buy a gold grill and get ugly.

Give me a fucking break. Little Wayne the best lyricist? Are you high or twelve year old? Answering yes to either question still doesn't really get you off the hook.

checking some tunes out on youtube. this is horrible. I've deleted better beats than these from my hard drive.

OP wrote - "There's nobody else in hip hop who can lyrically compare" - wha? do you listen to music? his flow is awful, this is borderline how bad _I_ rap and I'm a dorky 35 year old white guy who can't sing. I've bought demo CDs from guys on the street that were better than this, and I tossed those out.



who buys this shit? dunno, I always put it up to the kids, not black or white. aren't the days of rap being solely a black audience over? I was a 15 year old white kid in the 'burbs when '...Outta Compton' came out and we loved it, it spoke nothing about our reality but the whole notion of songs about the urban lifestyle isn't a black or white thing. if anything, the harder the rap, the more it appeals to teen angst.

my $0.02, I like rap but not most of the stuff that comes out today, I totally don't get it. most anything circa 1990 strokes my funky bone.

Just wanted to mention:

A good majority of NYC is white upper middle class people.

You're right they aren't bumping immortal technique.

thelike5

Why don't you post one of your hot tracks then, if he's so bad, let's here something from you

CM

cmreal04 wrote:thelike5

Why don't you post one of your hot tracks then, if he's so bad, let's here (sic!) something from you

CM

sure, if you can't make something like it, it's by definition better. And if many people buy an album, it's by definition good - which means Celine Dion makes fucking masterpieces.

Like it or don't like it he's talented, and his record sales and mass popularity on a "global" scale prove it. Some of these posts make me wonder if you would recognize talent if it was presented to you. This is not a diss just a point. A lot of people myself included are sick of rappers trying to kick knowledge or just talking about shooting people and slanging drugs. If I want to learn something I'll read a book, if I want to see guns and drugs, I'll visit my friend 30 min away.

What I like in general and seems to be more predominant in southern rap, is the fun factor, the creative word play / manipulation. There are many examples of what I'm referring to on Wayne's album "Playing with fire" and "3 Peat" are great examples, and of course "Lolipop"

CM

cmreal04 wrote: A lot of people myself included are sick of rappers trying to kick knowledge or just talking about shooting people and slanging drugs. If I want to learn something I'll read a book, if I want to see guns and drugs, I'll visit my friend 30 min away.

What I like in general and seems to be more predominant in southern rap, is the fun factor, the creative word play / manipulation.
CM

now thats the most valid post i've read in your thread there cmrealo4, and you've got every right to feel that way kudos to you.

me myself though, and alot of other people are sick of rappers talking about shooting people and slangin drugs as well as just trying to have fun which to a degree is predominantly in southern rapmusic but elswhere also
what i like to hear is rappers trying to kick knowledge because I don't know about your radio but all I get on my radio out this way is that other stuff, and for me personaly it's spiritualy weak and lacks the substance and tenacity that I need in a sonic experience.

but then again, thats just me and who knows how many ways you and I might differ, the important thing is that however different we might be, it doesn't really matter cause that should never be the issue.