Ableton Forum

madhattared wrote:

fewture wrote:

nebulae wrote: On the desktop side, I have a Quadcore q6600 that I built with quality parts, and a comparable Mac Pro would have doubled my price.
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Just to note, the price difference in Xeon 5400 and the q6600 is substantial - if someone wants to fairly compare the mac pro, then you need to find systems with the same specs (not similar specs). All the other companies systems with xeon's are a lot more than their normal intel desktop ranges.

Just because there is a price difference doesn't mean the performance is substantially better for the Xeons.

I have a hackintosh at home. It is rock solid with Live and is the fastest computer I've ever built. It took me 12 hours start to finish to get the machine built and osx stable with dual monitors nvidia drivers, network and sound driver which can all be found at the insanely mac forums. It is much cheaper then the hardware apple sells, especially considering their desktops.

WD Raptor + Q6600 eats Live for breakfast.
All said the chip, mobo, and two hard drives (raptor and 750gig) cost me 800$. I had all the other parts lying around already.

Take the plunge, you can spend the money you save on other gear.

Now that is an encouraging response. Especially seeing as everyone else seems to think its a no-go. 800$ compared to the what, $2000 that a macpro costs? Hardly any competition really.
Tbh, I kind of resent paying a company to build my computer, seeing as I can do it myself. A lot of people have said things like "but you get help when it breaks" etc. But in my experience that 'help' isnt worth the extra cash. Especially when you buy a macbook that is basically made out of papier machet and play-doh. This thing has more cracks in it than a hostel for retired rent-boys, everyone I know that has a macbook has some damage to the chassis. (just as an example, this is not the only reason I want to build my own computer)

nebulae wrote:

madhattared wrote: Take the plunge

For our benefit, could you please list all your parts, like mobo, video card, etc, and links to the drivers? That way, future readers can have a nice resource. Thanks.

Will Do. I'm at work, will try to get the links and driver resources when I get home tonight.

Chip : Q6600
Motherboard: Gigabyte ga-p35-ds4
Drive : Western Digital 150Gig Raptor 10000rpm
Ram : 4 gig GSkill 800
Cooler : ZEROtherm BTF90

The insanely mac forums are very helpful if you are looking into researching how to do this.

That 800 bucks is only for the motherboard, chip, and two hard drives. I already owned a video card, lcd's and power supply, dvd drive etc...

Here's an older link to get you started
http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-att ... 321913.php

I think it's great that Apple isn't cracking down on this, but I wish even further that they would at least get rid of the protection entirely.
'
I don't think they realize how much money they would make on the OS if they did. People argue all the time about Logic being a give away, but I seriously doubt it, plenty of people have bought a copy of Logic who already had a competing DAW, just because the price was right.

Machinesworking wrote:I think it's great that Apple isn't cracking down on this, but I wish even further that they would at least get rid of the protection entirely.
'
I don't think they realize how much money they would make on the OS if they did. People argue all the time about Logic being a give away, but I seriously doubt it, plenty of people have bought a copy of Logic who already had a competing DAW, just because the price was right.

+1!!!

However, if you look at the margins Apple makes on their hardware, they have no incentive to give it away. But I so wish they would, since it's already happening organically...

It's like playing bass on your guitar, innit? It'll work (sort of), but quirky, iffy, and not fun.

nebulae wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:I think it's great that Apple isn't cracking down on this, but I wish even further that they would at least get rid of the protection entirely.
'
I don't think they realize how much money they would make on the OS if they did. People argue all the time about Logic being a give away, but I seriously doubt it, plenty of people have bought a copy of Logic who already had a competing DAW, just because the price was right.

+1!!!

However, if you look at the margins Apple makes on their hardware, they have no incentive to give it away. But I so wish they would, since it's already happening organically...

This is exactly why, no one in the computer industry makes 30% margins on anything. Except Apple. I purchased a legal copy of OSX, and I modified it to allow me to use my own hardware. I really don't care that this "violates" their agreement. I look at this situation like a car, I don't see why GM would prevent me from changing the tires or the engine after my purchase.

i believe the agreement states (it used to anyway) that the computer you run OS X on must be an apple labeled machine.

i believe the stickers they give you when you buy a mac would qualify as "apple labeled".

^ I say you get some legal stickers from Apple (no P2P Torrented stickes!!!) and slap them on your hackintosh. You'll feel better in the morning.

madhattared wrote:

nebulae wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:I think it's great that Apple isn't cracking down on this, but I wish even further that they would at least get rid of the protection entirely.
'
I don't think they realize how much money they would make on the OS if they did. People argue all the time about Logic being a give away, but I seriously doubt it, plenty of people have bought a copy of Logic who already had a competing DAW, just because the price was right.

+1!!!

However, if you look at the margins Apple makes on their hardware, they have no incentive to give it away. But I so wish they would, since it's already happening organically...

This is exactly why, no one in the computer industry makes 30% margins on anything. Except Apple. I purchased a legal copy of OSX, and I modified it to allow me to use my own hardware. I really don't care that this "violates" their agreement. I look at this situation like a car, I don't see why GM would prevent me from changing the tires or the engine after my purchase.

There are numerous reasons for this though:
Fist being that they still are 5% of the market, computer wise. A boutique shop has to charge more. I just bought a Metasonix S-1000, and I'm sure if some larger company had put it out, the price would go down. The margins are there for twofold reasons, they have to compete OS wise with one of the largest margins of any company ever in Microsoft, and they have to make higher margins off of each individual customer.
It's comparable in some ways to the iPhone thing, where the initial cost is what Apple is willing to risk at first, then after the risk factor is gone, they can adjust the price lower.
Plus, they simply are not capable of making the kind of margins off of the OS that Microsoft does, and that R&D to a degree I believe is rolled into the cost of the computers. With that in mind I'm pretty surprised at how easy going they seem to be about the whole x86 project. My guess is they feel they can make it just difficult enough for hakintosh owner to where eventually they switch to a Mac Pro. Who knows? maybe if they see enough people taking a real interest they decided to free range the OS? The Mac Pros are nice machines, so people will still buy them, but the major argument for Windows has always been the Roll your own PC.
Which brings me to my main sore point. I like enough hardware to have a rack, I would easily rack a PC if I was on PC, but no rack solution on Mac, and the servers are notoriously loud!

^ Xserve is the mac server solution right? Or have I totally missed you point?

I'll buy you a brand new Mac of your choice if you promise to never post here again.



...

daniel_grieff wrote:^ Xserve is the mac server solution right? Or have I totally missed you point?

Machinesworking wrote:but no rack solution on Mac, and the servers are notoriously loud!

those things sound like a jet airplane taking off when the fans kick in.

doc holiday wrote:

daniel_grieff wrote:^ Xserve is the mac server solution right? Or have I totally missed you point?

Machinesworking wrote:but no rack solution on Mac, and the servers are notoriously loud!

those things sound like a jet airplane taking off when the fans kick in.

Echo, Echo.

My studio partner has a G5. The fans make a horrendous noise. You'd think they could use some quieter fans.

The G5 had very loud fans, fact acknowledged.

Pimped up PCs for gaming often have loud fans too.

The Mac Pro towers (Intel Mac) are quite a bit quieter than the G5 fans.