Ableton Forum

why not buy a synth you fancy off ebay, just keep an eye out for one in good condition and at a good price - use it then sell it for a small profit, then buy a different one and do the same etc. Ive recently done this with 2 korg electribes and made £200 profit!h

This will sound weird, but there is the "ghost in the machine" aspect to some instruments and I'm not so sure that software can do this.

Acoustic and electric instruments can build up "charge" when played well enough and long enough. Imagine picking up Eric Clapton's acoustic guitar. That thing is gonna be singin' as soon as you grab her neck. Or a ceremonial drum.

It's the theory that says the vibration of a thing can change with human observation or interaction. If an instrument has been loved and played, it has a "spirit" in it. Or at least that spirit can wake up at times and start singing.

Yeah I know this is a crazy thought but even with synths and effects units, the same thing seems to happen.

sh 101, Voyager, Arp 2600. They have such distinct sounds that you can immediately identify. They have their own character. Operator is OK for pads and some leads but do you use it for bass?

I tried for a year to get some fat bass out of Operator and was like "I must be doing something wrong," I picked up a Juno 106 and started playing with it and was like "oh shit.... Operator just sucks for bass...."

Machinesworking wrote:
TL;DR get analog hardware if you like that sound and can afford it, analog modeling hardware doesn't make any sense to me when soft synths sound just like them.

to me, the sound is only half of it. You can make an entire album with a VA or a soft synth, and as long as you treat it, edit it, eq it, etc... the right way, i'd say 90% of the people wouldn't even notice.

I still think the hands-on control part is an equally important factor.

Once again, subjective.

To answer your question, street cred. No mas.

Marx wrote:sh 101, Voyager, Arp 2600. They have such distinct sounds that you can immediately identify. They have their own character. Operator is OK for pads and some leads but do you use it for bass?

I tried for a year to get some fat bass out of Operator and was like "I must be doing something wrong," I picked up a Juno 106 and started playing with it and was like "oh shit.... Operator just sucks for bass...."

Hehe..

Dont know, its more about knowledge in the field. Its pretty easy to make super phat bass with operator IMHO.

Dont think I can copy a pure analog synth, but I can easily match a lot of typical nordlead and virus signature sounds. Just with operator, and abletons eqs and effects.

It took many years though to get to that point, so there is actually some sense in buying hardware just for the presets, if you cant make them yourself!

ze2be wrote:

Marx wrote:so there is actually some sense in buying hardware just for the presets, if you cant make them yourself!

This is exactly the reason NOT to buy expensive hardware. If you're not going to take advantage of the instrument and actually learn how to use it, then just stick with software. It's cheaper and the presets tend to be VASTLY superior to hardware synths.

- Nick

Nick the Zombie wrote:

ze2be wrote:

Marx wrote:so there is actually some sense in buying hardware just for the presets, if you cant make them yourself!

This is exactly the reason NOT to buy expensive hardware. If you're not going to take advantage of the instrument and actually learn how to use it, then just stick with software. It's cheaper and the presets tend to be VASTLY superior to hardware synths.

- Nick

I've owned a ton of synths - hardware and software - vintage and modern. The only hardware synth I still own is a Waldorf Pulse (amazing!). In the past I've owned a TB-303, June 60, Virus TI, Waldorf MW XTK, Sid Station, Novation Bass Station Keyboard, Korg Prophecy, Waldorf Q, plus other misc digital toys from Roland, EMU, and Korg.

Good hardware just sounds better in most cases - especially analog synths. Waldorf synths sounds better than most software, and they are also digital (except for Pulse).

Plus, like others have said, there is something very inspiring and inherently creative about sitting in front of a beautiful synth with tons of dedicated knobs, and buttons.

Software rocks for sure, but my next purchase is going to be a Dave Smith Instruments Prophet 08.

JM2C

-Brian

A hardware synth can't receive e-mails, has no internet connection and usually no mouse or qwerty-keyboard. It usually doesn't need defragging and anti-viruses.

A hardware synth can be plugged in straight into an amp without the need of addtional soundcards, mixers, host software, DI-boxes etc.

So often enough it's more practical to use a hardware synth. For example if you are the guy who makes the irritating noise in the band, and you don't want to carry computer, monitor, soundcard, midi-controller, mouse, qwerty and corresponding cables to the rehearsing room. But sooner or later you will be able to install reaktor and absynth on your telephone, and then the last advantage of hardwaresynths will be gone as well.

Nick the Zombie wrote:I suppose it's easy to dismiss the fact that playing a hardware instrument is on a different plane of inspiration from playing a piece of software. The tactile feedback and interaction between a person and their instrument is a rarity in the electronic music world, and I think you should explore your impulse to play with hardware. It's worlds more fun and interesting than hooking up a MIDI controller to a computer, IMO. I want the thing that I am touching to actually be making the noise I am hearing. I want it to have its own character expressed through physical circuitry that was assembled by a person. Playing with something that is no more physical than a piece of code can only get me so far in terms of inspiration.
- Nick

Rather arbitrary... unless you are specifically talking about analog hardware, then your so called hardware synth is just a computer with some code in it.

When I play my Z1 or when I use the Z1 to control a softsynth, it feels just the same to me. Same keys, same knobs and controllers, same expression pedal and sustain pedal. I can create a separate bank for the Z1 with preset names that correspond to the names of a set of a softsynths presets and I can use the increment/decrement keys to scroll through them. If you sat down to play, you would not even know it was a softsynth and not the Z1 (unless you recognized the character of the Z1)

SOME hardware synths have dedicated knobs for most controls. Plenty do not. Plenty have small little screens that require you to navigate lots of menus to edit sounds and are annoying.

I think hardware is overly romanticized...

pepezabala wrote: A hardware synth can be plugged in straight into an amp without the need of addtional soundcards, mixers, host software, DI-boxes etc.

If you use just one hardware synth, then it likely does not make sense to get a laptop and softsynths... If you use 5 softsynths and compared that to setting up 5 hardware synths so they talk to each other, stands, pedals, cables etc then the laptop and audio interface and controller keyboard are easier and faster to transport and setup.

Many a varied view.

I can't say I've noticed much issue gettign what I need from the soft synths but not having an analog synth to compare it to, it's difficult to say if the bass is, or can be, as good. I enjoy my sound designing and synthesis fiddling and know what I'm doing, though no expert so software is cool.

BUT, someone made the point about playing the instrument and having immediate tweakability with knobs and that i would like. I tend to do a lot of drum programming through my trigger fintger and Control Pad, so I am actually "playing" the drums and that gives me immense satisafaction. I do enjoy the same from my midi controller controlling the softs but, whenever you want to make change you have to go back to the screen and fiddle with mouse etc.....it can be a bit of a creativity killer.

I'm gonna go for it!

A mate of mine is letting a couple of synths go including a Novation BassStation, so I'm in!

Cheers for all t'feedback guys!

deva wrote:I think hardware is overly romanticized...

I sort of agree, though getting away from the computer interface and dealing with an interface designed specifically with music in mind isn't hard to romanticize at all is it?
Conversely dealing with the cables and physical space of hardware isn't romantic at all. Rewiring the studio all night now.

You're not wrong there...running out of power sockets fast.

I suspect I'm already breaking all sorts of regs.