Ableton Forum

i think that laptop is the standard

i thank for max and use it for making my "perfect traktor emulator" in live.

that's it : Traktor ( or concurrents) is "limited" to DJing, and it's its strenght. I began using live when it was Live 5, and since these times I still don"t understand why some say that live is a kinda DJ application...

One could say I "DJ" when playing live, because I "mix" my tracks, loading them in empty slots (decks), and using FXs, beat repeats... but my live tracks are 5-tracks/8-scenes-clip-groups, so when I "mix" 2 of my tracks, it's in fact 10 tracks routed into 2 "main channels"... So I can apply a beat repeat on this or that part of a track, say, the bass and the kick, pitching this, getting into a totally unknwon direction, while playing the voices and synth parts of the breakdown of another track only... this is simply not doable with traktor or any DJ software ( could we imagine one day a multitrack audio standard and all the software and hardware stuff dedicated? you buy tracks encoded in multitracks (bass, drums, voice, synths, i.e.), and mix everything multitrack!!! would be great!)

in that case of ableon "DJing", yes, Live is un-beatable, but to play "monotrack songs"... it's just shit to me. Traditionnal DJing is IMHO not an ableton Live specialty!

I never play other artist mp3s in my live sets.

When I want to really DJ (playing other artists music and 2-3 own tracks), Traktor (DUO) is so much easy, powerful, good sounding, and needs NO warping process (sometimes a little beat grid edition, really quick), NO template preparation or verification, NO trick to emulate anything (or just a -1-hour-midi programmation-session)...

Traktor pro + vestax VCI controller is IMHO the BEST simple setup for traditionnal DJing (and even a bit more, see DJtechtools stuff for the VCI).



EDIT:

If you have two laptops and an external soundcard and shit I highly reccomend using both, dropping loops or your own tracks over your traktor tracks and the fx capabilities are awesome...

no need to have 2 laptops for that, I tried one or 2 times, running Traktor and my live set with no real problem (just no synchro because it was with traktor 3 LE, but I'm used to beatmatch manually and you have Traktor ability to display the tempo of the track, so it's easy, even visually, to match the tempos between traktor and live)
I'ts fun, but I quickly realised that I prefered having 2 different sets, my live set, and the DJ set. It's sometimes really hard to match the SOUND of own tracks, with, say, a deadmau5 track!!

yeah, traktor really is the nearperfect dj solution existing. nice tracklist with tons of filtering, searching, sorting, grouping functionality, and great decks that sound great, work great. some nice effects, and nice internal mixers.

the bad thing is, i started to use live, and i love the possibility of doing anything in it. but i don't want to miss the good parts of traktor, so i try to get the best of both worlds in live

davepermen wrote:yeah, traktor really is the nearperfect dj solution existing. nice tracklist with tons of filtering, searching, sorting, grouping functionality, and great decks that sound great, work great. some nice effects, and nice internal mixers.

the bad thing is, i started to use live, and i love the possibility of doing anything in it. but i don't want to miss the good parts of traktor, so i try to get the best of both worlds in live

i agree on all the Traktor issues, well i am a massive fan, that is to me the one and only DJ solution and it get's stronger and better extremely fast... others have to dress very warm to keep up with competing with a near perfect DJ-solution more and more perfect with every update thy come out with...

i love live but really hate it for DJ-ing.

'DJ-ing' with Live is never really DJ-ing, it's live playing with a lot of manipulation possibilities. a totally different approach and result.

well, to each his own.

i actually would love to use live for dj-ing, if they would manage at least the tempo nudge per track at all and not stiff like a digital application, but a la 1210 / Traktor, with pure midi control. plus the by now 100 other more DJ related features, like coverflow, e.g.

i'm working on that, max4live ftw

davepermen wrote:i'm working on that, max4live ftw

cool, let me know how it's going.... that would be surely the main reason for me to get M4L. i am curious, please get the pitch and pitch bend behaviour going like in Traktor at least a 100% like it or even better, if you are only able to reach 99.9% of the pitch bend behaviour a la Traktor, then it's a 100% no go for me to switch. because THIS is the vital part that sets Traktor so much apart from ANY other of the digital DJ programs out there.

but serious, please let us know, i want to know! it would be great if possible, i would switch immediately... IF!

(Hi sub )

I understand you Dave,

I edited my last post, and yes it is really fun to have both worlds at hand. I made a 4 hours show once, alternating between "monstre jumo live set" and "DJ monstre jumo", sometimes merging the 2, but I realised I didn't really liked this "hybrid" times...

If I'm another times "booked" for a long-time show, I'd rather separate the 2 sets now... but I guess it's a matter of tastes!

Ok, I have to work my DJ skills now , one thing different in traktor PRO vs Live or Traktor 3 is that you can't record all the midi sequences of a DJ session, so you must record the PERFECT set, and have to... PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!

(in live you also have to practice, but you can already make great live sets if the stuff is well prepared, great sets that become incredibly good ones when you PLAY a lot -practice comes from the live shows, with just a little need for home practicing)

some of you may totally disagree with that...?


BTW: What soft should I use, to "insert" Live between my midi DJ controller and Traktor, so as to be able to record all midi sequences of a DJ set in a live set? Live would pass the midi datas to traktor, while recording it (all vestax vci 100 midi is on a single midi channel)???

this soft should be able to receive midi from anywhere and route it to anywhere else in the system?

just need a free mac MIDI router.. I'll check that and feedback if some are interested

cheers

hehe

well i don't need 100% of it, but i look into what i can do as a single man fighting a million $ company hahaha

but seriously, lets see what i can do. i hope for some form of trackbag that is similar to traktor ones, and the nudgefeatures and such.

actually, just with the beatjumping, i'm close to where i would be with traktor interestingly for my djing.

2 days till my holidays i will spend them partially with m4l

monstrejumo wrote:(Hi sub )

I understand you Dave,

I edited my last post, and yes it is really fun to have both worlds at hand. I made a 4 hours show once, alternating between "monstre jumo live set" and "DJ monstre jumo", sometimes merging the 2, but I realised I didn't really liked this "hybrid" times...

If I'm another times "booked" for a long-time show, I'd rather separate the 2 sets now... but I guess it's a matter of tastes!

Ok, I have to work my DJ skills now , one thing different in traktor PRO vs Live or Traktor 3 is that you can't record all the midi sequences of a DJ session, so you must record the PERFECT set, and have to... PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!

(in live you also have to practice, but you can already make great live sets if the stuff is well prepared, great sets that become incredibly good ones when you PLAY a lot -practice comes from the live shows, with just a little need for home practicing)

some of you may totally disagree with that...?


BTW: What soft should I use, to "insert" Live between my midi DJ controller and Traktor, so as to be able to record all midi sequences of a DJ set in a live set? Live would pass the midi datas to traktor, while recording it (all vestax vci 100 midi is on a single midi channel)???

this soft should be able to receive midi from anywhere and route it to anywhere else in the system?

just need a free mac MIDI router.. I'll check that and feedback if some are interested

cheers

i thought mac has some midi router by default?

yeah that silvester i played with live some tracks i made, realtime jugling and tweaking them. i played together with a friend, so i could load the track, he mixed in like a dj to the next, i could mix back.. later we played both with traktor mixing and messing. it was fun.

davepermen wrote:hehe

well i don't need 100% of it, but i look into what i can do as a single man fighting a million $ company hahaha

but seriously, lets see what i can do. i hope for some form of trackbag that is similar to traktor ones, and the nudgefeatures and such.

actually, just with the beatjumping, i'm close to where i would be with traktor interestingly for my djing.

2 days till my holidays i will spend them partially with m4l

well i need a 100% or above that, because to me that is what it's all about, well next to the selecting / programming, which we don't have to talk about, no tools needed (except the brain, soul, funk and ears) to achieve those skills.

i just don't see how you need it that well, as tracks will be in sync anyways. except for the nudging for correcting tiny offsets, and beatjumps of all sort of sizes including half a beat for funny effects maybe.

you said you don't scratch last time. live reduces a lot of needs for complex interaction between tracks. in the end, it's just relative positioning between them.

but we'll see if what i get working is good enough for you..

davepermen wrote:i just don't see how you need it that well, as tracks will be in sync anyways. except for the nudging for correcting tiny offsets, and beatjumps of all sort of sizes including half a beat for funny effects maybe.

you said you don't scratch last time. live reduces a lot of needs for complex interaction between tracks. in the end, it's just relative positioning between them.

but we'll see if what i get working is good enough for you..

well what you just said is something 85% if not more of the people think about DJ-ing... my only answer i can give is, come to a gig where i play and you will know exactly why i say what i say, no other explanation needed.

and if you have something you think is working well, really please let me know, because i want to check it out. thanks!

i just don't get what you want, from your description, at all

tracks will run at the same speed, and you can arbitrarily define the shift between those two tracks. that's ALL traktor gives you as long as you stay at the same speed. if you play at different speeds, it's another topic.

davepermen wrote:i just don't get what you want, from your description, at all

tracks will run at the same speed, and you can arbitrarily define the shift between those two tracks. that's ALL traktor gives you as long as you stay at the same speed. if you play at different speeds, it's another topic.

ever mixed on 1210s? then you know the pitch bend bahaviour, when you touch the platter or spindle.

except Trakor, no other digital DJ application (talking over midi, not control vinyl/CDs) has that 'soul' it is a stiff and clean, precise behaviour. dead!

i know. it still doesn't do anything different than, in a nice curve, shift the tracks from each other (and repitching the track while doing it, which i disabled.).

and yes, this very curve they implemented just feels right, even while all i use is a button today

but it still isn't more. technically. which is why i said i'm allready there. the rest is just making it behave like the other one, that's all.