Remote Script for Behringer X-Touch

[gregjar]

Wow! Will it be possible to duplicate the selection with the wheel?

And also, will it be possible to assign Master fader to the "Preview/Cue Volume" in FLIP mode? (well, there, make the metronome quieter and so on))

And also, there is an idea to remember the combination of open windows by "CONTROL-Global View" (opened View -> Second window, GLOBAL VIEW itself + Open/close the browser + Open/close the details view + Toggle between clip and device views), = remember the Default view.
And return to it by "SHIFT-Global View". If all this works...

PS I don't insist, but I tried it like below (just q and TWO spaces), and it turned out visually simpler and more legible for me. I regret this digital display...
("quant: 0ff", "q 4", "q 8", "q 8T", "q 8 8T", "q 16", "q 16T", "q 16 16T", "q 32")

[RobrechtV]

● For the quantization display, I wasn't too happy about the apostrophes either (that was the only character that remotely looks like a slash). I've tweaked it so the screen layout remains the same for all quantizations, including off (quant. off, quant. 8 8t etc.).

● Store and recall view was easy to implement, nice idea.

● Apart from quick selection using OPTION/CONTROL/ALT, Input Type and Channel select are now dedicated modes (including LED feedback). Modes are now selected through SHIFT + F1-F8, with:
F1 = Disabled
F2 = Quantization
F3 = Input Type
F4 = Input Channel

I think I'd rather leave the mod wheel out of those modes, as it's already burdened with a lot of functions depending on the modifier button(s) pressed. I made an exception for the settings menu since that is so clearly distinct from normal operation it's OK for it to hijack the cursor buttons and jog wheel. For Input Type/Channel selection, there's always the rotary encoders in the old TRACK I/O mode.

● Cue volume on flip: good idea. I made it optional, off by default, but you can enable it in the global settings.

[gregjar]

Everything is very cool. Only "Save and recall view" works a little differently than I expected.
Don't you want to save the status to the options file so that you can call the view in other sessions? Can the "Second Window" status (on/off) be included there?
In some cases, unexpected results of recall are obtained... I'm trying to figure it out.

[RobrechtV]

Yeah, "Save and recall view" is something I would restrict to the current session. The view status is made up of a bunch of single settings (browser visible or not, clip or device view...) and if I put those in the options.txt file they all would individually populate the settings menu. Even if I implemented an exception to keep some settings out of the menu, they would still make options.txt more complicated for users who want to edit it directly, and it would add bloat to the settings system. In the end, for a shortcut that saves just a couple of button presses, that's a bit much.

Especially since second window on or off, which would make it more useful, isn't available in the API. Otherwise I would have made a dedicated button for that a long time ago.

The way "Save and recall view" works now is it makes an initial snapshot when you start Live, just to initialize the values. So if you recall without first having saved, that's what it returns to. Any time you've set up a view you like, you can save it to overwrite the previous one.

[gregjar]

I made a sketch without details and modificators so you can evaluate with your eyes where we are now with a basic overlay scheme. With LEDs colors.
The Gray Section is quite chaotic.
Some abbreviations or emblems need to be invented.

Original layout (dropbox link)

Overlayed (dropbox link)

[RobrechtV]

Hey that's really excellent!! Incorporating the LED colors helps to see where everything goes. Looks really good already, labels are well thought-out.

I agree the modificator functions will be complicated to show clearly. I have to admit I don't really have any ideas there.

The Gray Section being chaotic: you mean the New MIDI, Audio and Return Track buttons being sprinkled among the different view buttons, right? Yeah, that's an inheritance from the original modified script, which took a cue from the MIDI TRACKS and AUDIO TRACKS button labels. Handy to have some idea of what those buttons do, but once you start thinking about an overlay and the original labels don't matter anymore, I agree that placement is not ideal.

Later, when it comes to creating a convenient overlay, the view buttons and the three create buttons in this row can be conveniently grouped.
Probably, when creating a new overlay scheme, You will have to think about a script option (or a special switch) for those who will use it without an overlay...

OK, I've implemented this. An extra option binds the New MIDI, Audio and Return Track functions to AUX, BUSES and OUTPUTS, and moves the view-related buttons to the left. That way, they are grouped with GLOBAL VIEW (= Session/Arranger), which logically belongs to them too. USER still calls up the Macro Mapper, I think it's handy to have that one at the end and easily reachable.

As with other settings that alter the basic functioning of the X-Touch, it's off by default (so users don't get confused), but persistent (set-and-forget).

[gregjar]

I edited the message above with adding overlayed variant.

Honestly, I really want to swap SCRUB and OVERDUB. I will probably do so on my device (just ask You how to do)).

And it is also possible that I will physically replace some LEDs in my device oneday, from donar device. But it will takes half a day to unscrew and screw it in - therefore, I will endure until the last. )) I want to change colors of LOOP, MASTER and, perhaps, MODIFY section.
Alternatively, this can be done by changing the color of the button outline on the overlay.

[RobrechtV]

Yes, nice seeing those three "new track" options grouped like they should be.

Replacing the hardware LEDs is drastic. Cool though.

Swapping SCRUB and OVERDUB: all buttons are defined in consts.py. These are the current relevant values:

Code: Select all

SID_FUNC_TRIM = 76

and

Code: Select all

SID_JOG_SCRUB = 101
jog_wheel_switch_ids = list(range(SID_JOG_CURSOR_UP, SID_JOG_SCRUB + 1))

I think these should work to swap their functions around for your device (replace the relevant lines at their original location):

Code: Select all

SID_FUNC_TRIM = 101

and

Code: Select all

SID_JOG_SCRUB = 76
jog_wheel_switch_ids = (SID_JOG_CURSOR_UP,
 SID_JOG_CURSOR_DOWN,
 SID_JOG_CURSOR_LEFT,
 SID_JOG_CURSOR_RIGHT,
 SID_JOG_ZOOM,
 SID_JOG_SCRUB)

But note that all functions of those buttons will be swapped. Scrub in particular has a couple:
- In Session view: fire selected scene (OPTION + SCRUB: stop all clips).
- In my settings menu: restore default value.
(- And in Arrangement view: hold SCRUB and turn Jog Wheel to scrub (scrub_by()) instead of jumping (jump_by()), although Live hasn't implemented a difference between those two behaviours yet )

[gregjar]

Thank You very much!

If we talk about drastic, it would be an changing of FLIP and MASTER.
The more I look at now, the more obvious it is. ))) FLIP stands exactly in place of SELECT for the Master channel. It's a pity that changing doesn't work in all situations.

[RobrechtV]

I just updated touch-fader-to-select-track mode to include the master fader and track, so that's at least something?

I agree that visually, FLIP would seem a logical place for SELECT (even though its LED is yellow and not green like the track select buttons). On the other hand it's had the "flip faders" functionality for such a long time and must be part of some users' workflow, so I'm a little wary of messing with it.

I do wonder if maybe SHIFT + FLIP would work to select the master track, and then something with the LED on versus blinking to differentiate between "master track selected" and "in flip mode"...

I could do it like this:
FLIP = flip faders (as it has always been)
SHIFT + FLIP = select master track
FLIP LED blinking = faders flipped
FLIP LED on = master track selected
(...with "blinking" taking precedence over "on", so it'll always indicate the faders flipped state, even when the master track is also selected.)

That would change nothing for legacy users, except for the LED blinking instead of on for the flipped state.

And I could even swap the SHIFT behavior around if the alternative layout is activated (so that FLIP selects master track and SHIFT + FLIP becomes flip faders). Still wouldn't change anything for legacy users who don't activate the alternative layout.

In fact I just uploaded a new version with those changes.

This in fact makes the master track select button in the gray section obsolete... Maybe I should put it to another use? It hasn't been around for as long as FLIP. And using the FLIP button for master track select, whether with SHIFT or not, is just clearly more intuitive.

Edit: Another quick update: pressing the button to select the master channel twice (whether it's (SHIFT +) FLIP or the Gray Section one) now simply collapses/uncollapses the master track, for consistency with the channel strip SELECT buttons. This avoids functional overlap with the dedicated Show Details Pane button, which has always bothered me a little. To see your master chain, just select the master and press the details pane button.

[gregjar]

For Alternative layout, you can move MACRO MAPPER to the place of AUDIO INST (where MASTER is now, but MASTER will move to FLIP's place), - let it separate Views and Create New Tracks. And assign FLIP to the USER button at the very end.
Yes, FLIP is similar to interface things like CLIP/DEVICE, and can be located right in place of AUDIO INST. But FLIP at the end of the line where USER is - it's just convenient.
And SHIFT+FLIP is simply not needed in an alternative layout.

And for the native layout I suggest not changing anything - FLIP in its place, Master and MMapper at the end of the gray section.
Our starship is already flying, glowing with lights, there is no need to complicate it so much that nobody can’t remember the controls at all. )

PS Updated links to layout images in the post above.

[gregjar]

Or maybe like this?! (link to an alternative layout sketch)

[RobrechtV]

Hm, I have to think about it.

● One thing is that for technical reasons, buttons can't jump between sections when you switch between default and alternative layout. So some decisions have to be made for both layouts at the same time.

● The more I think about it, moving the master track select function to FLIP like you suggested just feels like a clear improvement both in default and alternative layout. The MASTER button in the Gray Section is a relatively recent addition of mine and not part of the original Mackie Control scheme, so I think legacy users will quickly get used to its more intuitive position.

● I intuitively prefer to keep the actual flip function tied to the FLIP button. It's next to the faders, which flipping affects, right above the master fader, which it turns into Cue Volume (if enabled), and aligned vertically with two other buttons that switch a major view or functionality: Return Tracks and Session/Arrangement. Losing that placement would discourage users from giving the alternative layout a try, I think.

● Your last proposal is good, it doesn't change too much and moves the Flip function to a position that would still feel logical. But then the problem is that same relocation would have to be done for the default layout, since buttons can't jump sections. Then users without an overlay would be in the unintuitive situation that the button labeled FLIP doesn't flip.

But maybe I can challenge legacy users just a little by using SHIFT + FLIP for flipping in both layouts . SHIFT is right next to it after all. And that way FLIP (without SHIFT) is entirely consistent with the SELECT buttons next to it, which is how it always should have been.

Besides: room for a new button in the Gray Section opens up possibilities! It could do something simple, like open the settings menu, or directly toggle a specific setting, or something new.

But like I said: still thinking about it!

[gregjar]

Maybe just two different scripts - for native interface users and for overlay users?
In this case, the ability to switch is not so important, since it is unlikely that anyone will use both options.

Then we will attach precise drawings for printing of overlay (on paper or on a magnetic base on a plotter) and a 3D model for a multi-color 3D printers. (I tried the last option, the millimeter overlay is very precise and convenient, fits and looks well.)
I think you can order a printout in many places now, and it's inexpensive.

[RobrechtV]

Oh wow, a 3D printed overlay would be cool! And it would be great to include the files in the download, I'd love that.

About the buttons.

● I'd rather not start a separate script for the alternative layout, since that would mean potential confusion and more maintenance (I don't want to leave overlay-less users behind). But I'll see if I can figure out a clean way to make buttons jump sections.

● I definitely want Master Select to be above the master fader in both layouts. So no more MASTER in the middle of the Gray Section.

● If the Flip function moves up to the GLOBAL VIEW button in the alternative layout, like in your last sketch, that nicely fills up the Gray Section (with the other view-related buttons moving one spot to the right). It also puts it close to the TRACKS/RETURNS button, which has a very similar function. So in itself, disregarding its relationship with the default layout, that layout is good.

● But if we move Master Select to the FLIP button for both layouts, and use your latest sketch for the alternative layout, that would leave one button unused in default layout (the former MASTER button in the Gray Section, since Flipping and Master Select would be combined in the FLIP button in the default layout).

● So, new idea: use your latest sketch for alternative layout, and for default layout, simply swap FLIP and MASTER (instead of combining those functions in one button) so the Flipping function remains on the button marked FLIP. Then MASTER is still located over the master fader, just one higher.

In fact... Maybe I'd even make the rearrangement of the rest of the Gray Section mandatory for both layouts, since it's so much less chaotic having the New Track buttons grouped, and the original button markings – MIDI TRACKS, AUDIO TRACKS, BUSES... – aren't that helpful anyway. The whole Gray Section is fairly recent, not part of the core Mackie Control functions, and – I feel – not as tied to muscle memory as some more essential buttons.

So, summing up: your sketch for alternative mode, and for the default layout: your sketch with MASTER and FLIP swapped. I think that would still work well without an overlay.

The only button layout option in the settings would then be whether you want the FLIP button to be Flip or Master Select. Simple, easy to explain in the options.txt file, and in time maybe even users without an overlay will come to prefer the latter for its consistency with the track SELECT buttons...

Controversial decisions, but they would be for the better, I think!