Ableton Forum

So I took Angstrom's suggestion (not the one above sadly) but the one to buy Live 12 at the intro price but not actually install it until the first big update. So last week I finally upgraded from Live 11 to 12. So many new things added. Cool. Now let's read the manual to see what these things do. Ah, no proper manual. Pretty poor show really.

Synthbuilder wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:29 am

So I took Angstrom's suggestion (not the one above sadly) but the one to buy Live 12 at the intro price but not actually install it until the first big update. So last week I finally upgraded from Live 11 to 12. So many new things added. Cool. Now let's read the manual to see what these things do. Ah, no proper manual. Pretty poor show really.

yeah it is, a manual is so important when you have such a huge Program with so many features and menus and whatever.

I tried to read the existing online manual for the Scales feature, because i thought i can globally change the pitch of all MIDI channels, turns out you cant, the existing manual didnt even help me there.
There are videos on Ableton YT, which explain atleast a few of these new features, but videos are so boring, im always zzzZZZzzz away, when i want to learn something, which could be written in a manual is presented as a video ...

There was a tweet reply from Abletons Twitter, that the manual will be created soon as PDF - well as you can see nothing happened ...

i guess its adventure time and users have to learn alone now or with the help of the internet ...

Someone on Reddit made a PDF - but as many have indicated a lot of the new key commands, changes aren't updated..

https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/commen ... anual_pdf/

Changing our band name to Phyton PDF

PDF*ckNo?

are we there yet?

spacepluk wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:41 am

are we there yet?

as sad as it sounds no ...

Just came across this thread. I’m on Live 11 Suite and have used Ableton since v1.

I was just about ready to upgrade to v12 Suite when I thought I’d download the v12 manual first to have a good look at the details of what the new stuff in 12 Suite does.

I couldn’t find a manual anywhere, which led me to this thread.

WTAF. Seriously. I have never, ever bought any hardware or software without first reading through the manual to understand what the thing can do before I commit to buying it. I do not rely on tedious YouTube videos for this: I want to read the details, for myself, in my own time.

And once I’ve bought the hardware/software I rely on the manual to make sure I’ve got the basics right and haven’t missed anything - and to check out more advanced stuff.

That is why manuals exist. That is why “RTFM” is almost as old as the internet.

Any company that launches a product as complex as Live 12 Suite without a manual (and with online “help” that isn’t searchable and has errors) is not getting my money until there’s a downloadable manual available. End of.

MattP wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:35 am

Any company that launches a product as complex as Live 12 Suite without a manual (and with online “help” that isn’t searchable and has errors) is not getting my money until there’s a downloadable manual available. End of.

I really don't get it? the silence and unprofessional behavior around the manual is just one of the strangest things they've ever done to me?

I completely understood maybe underestimating the amount of work it would take to integrate M4L into 8 and all the issues 8 had, but this is just, weird?

Machinesworking wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:50 am

MattP wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:35 am

Any company that launches a product as complex as Live 12 Suite without a manual (and with online “help” that isn’t searchable and has errors) is not getting my money until there’s a downloadable manual available. End of.

I really don't get it? the silence and unprofessional behavior around the manual is just one of the strangest things they've ever done to me?

I completely understood maybe underestimating the amount of work it would take to integrate M4L into 8 and all the issues 8 had, but this is just, weird?

It is odd. I don’t understand it either. No idea what’s going on here.

Machinesworking wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:50 am

MattP wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2024 9:35 am

Any company that launches a product as complex as Live 12 Suite without a manual (and with online “help” that isn’t searchable and has errors) is not getting my money until there’s a downloadable manual available. End of.

I really don't get it? the silence and unprofessional behavior around the manual is just one of the strangest things they've ever done to me?

I completely understood maybe underestimating the amount of work it would take to integrate M4L into 8 and all the issues 8 had, but this is just, weird?

I guess the company is sadly in deep trouble. Just an impression from the layoffs, and ex employee comments, etc. time will tell. A real shame if they do go the way of NI, and others, But it seems like Ableton has a serious case of long covid. I will not be astounded if there are secret talks to sell up to someone like inMusic or Francisco Partners. There's just too much weird stuff happening. It's like a wobbly table. Something is not right.

Angstrom wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 8:17 pm

I will not be astounded if there are secret talks to sell up to someone like inMusic or Francisco Partners.

This is highly unlikely, read this Gerhard itw.

[jur] wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:19 pm

Angstrom wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 8:17 pm

I will not be astounded if there are secret talks to sell up to someone like inMusic or Francisco Partners.

This is highly unlikely, read this Gerhard itw.

That article is from several years ago. Back when we still had a manual. And things change.

lincolnkid wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:25 pm

And things change.

I know, but we can hope some decisions stand.

[jur] wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:35 pm

lincolnkid wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:25 pm

And things change.

I know, but we can hope some decisions stand.

if somehow they're not doing well, then that decision might be why we see no movement on this after months of complaints to at least address the mistakes in the manual.

They can be all righteous that Logic is owned by Apple, Pro Tools by Avid, but they left out FL Studio and Reaper, very arguably the other two big players in the top five DAWs, both which are independently owned. Just a guess but considering the insane numbers Image Line boasts, FL is the most popular DAW. OTOH Cubase, Pro Tools and maybe Studio One might not be around if they hadn't gotten parent companies investing money etc.

It's funny where this ends up going, but it's just a weird mystery so here we are wondering why arguably the second or third most popular DAW (my guess, but most definitely in the top five), is struggling to get this right?