Ableton Forum

Tone Deft wrote:
how many animals were used in testing just so we can argue online about testing on animals?

Kodama wrote:

stringtapper wrote:

Tone Deft wrote:fail.

Is it uncomfortable to know someone could find no worth in either side's opinions?

You have a Lemur, STFU.

Tone Deft wrote: how many animals were used in testing just so we can argue online about testing on animals?

Tone Deft wrote:

Scott, Kodama - LOL!

Tone Deft wrote:whatchutalkinboutwillis?

Android Bishop wrote:

LoopStationZebra wrote:

I'm right with you, Android, but you do get seriously pissed. I'm not sure if that really helps your position. I'm not judging, mind you. Just find it interesting.

What's your own ethical journey on this issue? How did you feel about it when you were getting your undergrad vs how you felt before school? You don't have to answer, of course, but I don't personally know anyone in the field and am curious.

I was a lot more "hippie" before I started. I even got into it because of my kooky spiritual nonsense beliefs. My parents told me to get to a real university or I would be kicked out, so I did it and joined the Environmental and Occupational health program. However, I believe the universe (or god or whatever) directs us to the best path in our lives via feelings of excitement and joy. I was in my class for about 10 minutes when I realized I couldnt give a shit, got up and and left and dropped all my classes. I was looking through the other bio majors and saw the classes for biotech and thought that one sounded the coolest because it involved a lot of chemistry, physics, and fun sounding courses like DNA recombinant techniques and neural biology. Good lord did I get an education. Ever since then I've been fascinated with it, we are HACKING LIFE. We are taking the creation and functioning of organisms and biochemistry into our own hands, and it is leading us into the dawn of a new era where the actual process of evolution has evolved itself to a new level where organisms intelligently alter and create new forms of biological processes. Biology is like any other form of technology, only it is far more advanced. To be able to harness it for our own purposes is going to lead to an explosion of new ways of doing things, like reverse engineering advanced alien tech. the things we are learning and doing these days is absolutely mind blowing and it saddens me that the general population has no clue what is going on and what's actually involved.

For instance, if I told you that we actually use lentiviruses like HIV routinely in the lab, you'd probably freak the fuck out. But you wouldn't understand how we are using the virus code to inject our own custom DNA into the DNA of another organism after removing the parts of the virus RNA that code for other viruses. There isnt any danger because the vector doesnt have the ability to replicate itself, but if the public got word that we use HIV to genetically modify animals that could later be used in agriculture they would throw a shit fit. I probably would have too, but I've been learning this and doing this after years of hard work to gain an understanding of how it actually works and now I'm excited to use it. Unfortunately, science is under attack from all directions and most of it is coming from people who dont know SHIT. That's the problem, in order to know shit, you have to put in a lot of time and effort to learn a LOT of stuff to get a fundamental grasp of how all this stuff fits together. I get upset that people have the unmitigated gall to throw baseless accusations and spout nonsense like "animal research never solved anything" when they dont know anything about what they are talking about and refuse to put in the same amount of effort to learn it that the scientists did. Its insulting to the amazing things brilliant people have accomplished through scientific research.

I see a lot of issue dodging in this thread. I say if you are against animal research, go back to school and learn everything there is to know about biology and biochemistry and biotechnology and animal research and all that so you have a grasp of the subject and are therefore in a position to find some sort of alternative. Otherwise its just a bunch of horseshit based upon worthless opinions grounded in a lack of knowledge of the subject at hand.

Emissary wrote:
You are one seriously deluded mofo. just thought i'd let you know. This is the problem with scientists, the belief they are evolving evolution themselves. They think they know better than billions of years of natural evolution. I have news for you sonny, its going to end in a flood of tears. And all the scientists will say was "how were we supposed to know" Just admit you a child blindly screwing with shit you dont know anything about and then i might have some respect for you.

ThrowAway wrote:I know this really has nothing to do with the thread but:


I hate peta, because of them certain large national pet retail companies are not allowed to euthanize any fish(forced into agreement through extortion well maybe thats not the correct term) So what happens to these fish? They suffer as long as possible and die slow horrible deaths. Plus they come into the large pet retailers with no identification push there way into any room. This endangers the employees and the animals. I have experienced this personally, although I have been told this hasnt happened in a couple of years at least to my old coworkers or what they have heard. I worked at pet store while in school. I have never been impressed or happy with anything peta has ever done that i know about. Except maybe that sexy pic of peta wilson naked wrapped in a bed sheet to um raise money for the ceo of peta's paycheck. I am an animal lover. peta does not support my ideals of what that means, peta are arrogant, ignorant extremist assholes that do harm to animals in my very limited experience with them.

Android Bishop wrote:

Emissary wrote:
You are one seriously deluded mofo. just thought i'd let you know. This is the problem with scientists, the belief they are evolving evolution themselves. They think they know better than billions of years of natural evolution. I have news for you sonny, its going to end in a flood of tears. And all the scientists will say was "how were we supposed to know" Just admit you a child blindly screwing with shit you dont know anything about and then i might have some respect for you.

I admit I am screwing with shit I dont know much about. That is why I screw with it, so we can find out. Thats the point idiot. That's what we do in science, we test things to find out whats going on. I understand thats a tough concept for somebody who would rather sit around pontificating on their worthless opinions and fantasies without going out and backing them up with any evidence whatsoever. But that is how real knowledge of the world is obtained.

Now its your turn to admit you're a deluded hippie with no idea what you're talking about. That's the problem with you hippies, you think your ideas have validity but can't back any of them up because you rely on faith rather than evidence.

Minimal Justice System wrote:Choo Choo -> BANG <- Choo Choo


Another trainwreck thread..... WOW

Emissary wrote:
You are one seriously deluded mofo. just thought i'd let you know. This is the problem with scientists, the belief they are evolving evolution themselves. They think they know better than billions of years of natural evolution.