Ableton Forum

God, Buddha, Confucius, A stick, the spaghetti monster, a door knob, etc...

The point is you as a person couldn't make yourself stop drinking or using. Only something you believe to be greater than yourself can make you stop.

djadonis206 wrote:God, Buddha, Confucius, A stick, the spaghetti monster, a door knob, etc...

The point is you as a person couldn't make yourself stop drinking or using. Only something you believe to be greater than yourself can make you stop.

that's the tact AA uses but I don't believe this to be true in real life. often former addicts (or people that have had tragedy in their life) turn to religion, good for them, I guess. IMO it's not a fix, it's a crutch. it's not healthy but they're better off.

mickey disco wrote:

DrXparaMental wrote:
Aren't there numerous atheist based recovery programs?

I've no idea, are there? I've never been to rehab and neither has anyone close to me........

Rational Recovery would be the program you'd want to track down, if that is what you would require to get your feet in the door.

TD - Exactly. Most addicts would rather be clean and sober in a church than drunk and or high in a jail cell. That's most, not all. There's always more than one way to do anything. What works for some doesn't work for all.

*I really don't like using contractions but for the sake of casual conversation...

djadonis206 wrote:TD - Exactly. Most addicts would rather be clean and sober in a church than drunk and or high in a jail cell. That's most, not all. There's always more than one way to do anything. What works for some doesn't work for all.

*I really don't like using contractions but for the sake of casual conversation...

as long as they don't choose the Catholic God as their higher power they should be fine

djadonis206 wrote:God, Buddha, Confucius, A stick, the spaghetti monster, a door knob, etc...

The point is you as a person couldn't make yourself stop drinking or using. Only something you believe to be greater than yourself can make you stop.

Precisely. The "Higher Power" is a focused means to a sober end. Newly recovering alcoholics don;t make the best thinkers. It's important, if not absolutely essential, to surrender.

Tone Deft wrote:

djadonis206 wrote:God, Buddha, Confucius, A stick, the spaghetti monster, a door knob, etc...

The point is you as a person couldn't make yourself stop drinking or using. Only something you believe to be greater than yourself can make you stop.

that's the tact AA uses but I don't believe this to be true in real life. often former addicts (or people that have had tragedy in their life) turn to religion, good for them, I guess. IMO it's not a fix, it's a crutch. it's not healthy but they're better off.

If crutch is the term we're going to use to describe something that offers dramatic assistance in turning one's life around when it's all gone to crap...

Well, and not to get into a religious debate, there's not really any empirical evidence to either prove a God or disprove one. It's just as easy to argue the against Creationism as it is to feel that pi and other laws of physics are laws created by some sort of higher and intelligent being, not to mention who we are and why we're here...

In the end, it's just what a person feels and believes. I don't think that the idea is to go into AA with a prerequisite amount of faith, the idea is to just have an open mind. Many people have to wander a far stretch from their comfort level to be able to try the 12 steps or practicing the general principles of AA in general. Many people, myself included have what I suppose you could call an epiphany just from the rewards eventually received from making those changes.

But once again, I think that the 2 biggest things that make an attempt at AA or any program that uses the 12 steps successful is an ability to be honest and thorough, as well as the ability to keep an open mind. No more and no less.

EDIT: I think it's important to reiterate that again, I didn't start by praying to God, I just became willing to try praying. My prayers started out with "I don't know if anyone's out there, but..." and a few years later, they just start with "sup dude?!?!?"

DrXparaMental wrote:

djadonis206 wrote:God, Buddha, Confucius, A stick, the spaghetti monster, a door knob, etc...

The point is you as a person couldn't make yourself stop drinking or using. Only something you believe to be greater than yourself can make you stop.

Precisely. The "Higher Power" is a focused means to a sober end. Newly recovering alcoholics don;t make the best thinkers. It's important, if not absolutely essential, to surrender.

Surrender meaning to quit fighting. It doesn't mean to quit, it doesn't mean to run out and buy crucifixes and become a Jesus Freak, it just means that you're willing to incorporate new principles and ways of life into your mix.

Spikee wrote:

DrXparaMental wrote:

djadonis206 wrote:God, Buddha, Confucius, A stick, the spaghetti monster, a door knob, etc...

The point is you as a person couldn't make yourself stop drinking or using. Only something you believe to be greater than yourself can make you stop.

Precisely. The "Higher Power" is a focused means to a sober end. Newly recovering alcoholics don;t make the best thinkers. It's important, if not absolutely essential, to surrender.

Surrender meaning to quit fighting. It doesn't mean to quit, it doesn't mean to run out and buy crucifixes and become a Jesus Freak, it just means that you're willing to incorporate new principles and ways of life into your mix.

It means you are willing to admit your powerlessness over alcohol.

The key to being a good drunk is to surround yourself with other drunks. Drunks don't mix well with sober people or potheads. If there's one thing I've done with my life it's assembled some of the greatest drunks the world has ever known. You can't hurt the people around you (other than extreme examples) if they are equally as messed up drunk as you. All is forgiven in the morning. Safety in numbers.

hey Beats Me,

Let's go drinking sometime. You're my kind of lush!

Tod

Spikee wrote:Surrender meaning to quit fighting. It doesn't mean to quit, it doesn't mean to run out and buy crucifixes and become a Jesus Freak, it just means that you're willing to incorporate new principles and ways of life into your mix.

that's a good way to put it. the other posts were good as well.

for me that outlet would be my wife. she's the higher power in my life that would be worthwhile to change for.

ChiDJ wrote:hey Beats Me,

Let's go drinking sometime. You're my kind of lush!

Tod

Another great benefit of a usually drunk posse is you never have to worry about originality because nobody ever remembers you already shared the same story a dozen times. It's great for the storyteller and the audience. There's nothing more irritating than that friend that rarely drinks who constantly cuts off your stories with "yeah, you told me".

stjohn wrote:

Big V wrote:

stjohn wrote:Germans have beers for breakfast.

What!? Who told you that?

coming out of Tresor, berlin, onto a mini-rave down by the river, we stopped to get some us some beverages, only to find construction workers having a pre-work beer-brekkie.
there, by the riverside, my eyes bulging out slightly past the trace of saliva-gick on my mouth, i kindled a newfound appreciation for the ways of the german.

We have a saying here in Germany that goes 'beer is staple food'.

Don't know what it's like in the U.S. but over here in Europe there's simply some tasty beer around!
Like the Czech beer for example which is a liquid delicacy and tastes awesome!
There might be some people out there that just enjoy alcohol in form of a good beer, an excellent whiskey, smooth cocktail etc. without going complete drunk and flipping out.

And yes -like mentioned before- instead of visiting the psychiatrist once a week I meet my buddies to enjoy a few beers, a nice chat, good music, pretty girls...all in a pleasant surrounding, preferably outside during summer.

And yes it can get out of hand, of course. But that is what life is all about, to become acquainted with one own bounds and to respect them as well as to develop some kind of self-discipline.

beats me wrote:There's nothing more irritating than that friend that rarely drinks who constantly cuts off your stories with "yeah, you told me".

Au contraire! There's nothing more irritating than the drunk who repeats the same old stories (that usually weren't that interesting and/or funny to begin with). YMMV...

ew