Ableton Forum

Multitrack editing, a foreign concept in Live.

BTW, playing catch up on the thread and I agree with everyone who said what good are the features if you don't need them. I agree so for those people the whole objective/subjective thing is irrelevant, although I'm quite sure you'd incorporate the one's I've listed into your workflows in a heartbeat.

To me, it's black and white. Being able to edit multiple audio tracks with sample accurate waveforms at the same time is a must. It's a better feature than NOT being able to do that. For someone who needs to edit a live drum performance it's not an opinion what's better or worse. And the truth is whether you're use to that feature or not, it is better.

Sample accurate Waveforms in the arrange window are better than non-sample accurate waveforms. That's not something you can argue but I'm sure someone here will & it will be very funny.



Do you see that? That's multiple clips within a clip. If we can't agree that that's not objectively better than Abletons static clips then troll away.

Anyways, BitWig will have it's troubles but the program is coming out of the gate with the Ableton users dream feature set. It shows we're dealing with a company whose ear is to the street. We've been asking for crucial features in Live for years and they gave us Push.

To each his own but I'm going to enjoy using a program whose the developers are thinking like the users.

That's sooo funny!

So far the GREAT migration is only at 12%.

kb420 wrote:So far the GREAT migration is only at 12%.

Just wait till you use it man, it's really something special. I don't think I can explain how revolutionary this program is. To put it in perspective we're comparing Ableton Live 9.0 to BitWig 1.0. I repeat, we're comparing Ableton Live 9.0 to BitWig 1.0 The great BigWig migration is upon us.

For anyone curious, this is a fantastic interview with someone on the BitWig team. A very good read.

http://thefrontliner.com/interviews/sfo ... ilms-43051

hec wrote:

kb420 wrote:So far the GREAT migration is only at 12%.

Just wait till you use it man, it's really something special. I don't think I can explain how revolutionary this program is. To put it in perspective we're comparing Ableton Live 9.0 to BitWig 1.0. I repeat, we're comparing Ableton Live 9.0 to BitWig 1.0 The great BigWig migration is upon us.

For anyone curious, this is a fantastic interview with someone on the BitWig team. A very good read.

http://thefrontliner.com/interviews/sfo ... ilms-43051

I think you need some perspective. Just because BitWig happens to have two small features that Live doesn't (right now) doesn't mean it is a better piece of software overall. A DAW is a complete package. Every additional feature is usually a trade-off with ease of use. Live in particular is all about fast and efficient working. Just because you take the basic idea behind Live and tack a dozen additional features onto it that turns it into a bloated mess doesn't mean the end product is a better DAW.

Besides, BitWig isn't even released yet. For every OMGCOOLAWESOME new feature BitWig brings to the table compared with Live it may miss 3 Live already has. These will be missed and noticed by Live users especially. Alot.

BoddAH wrote:

hec wrote:

kb420 wrote:So far the GREAT migration is only at 12%.

Just wait till you use it man, it's really something special. I don't think I can explain how revolutionary this program is. To put it in perspective we're comparing Ableton Live 9.0 to BitWig 1.0. I repeat, we're comparing Ableton Live 9.0 to BitWig 1.0 The great BigWig migration is upon us.

For anyone curious, this is a fantastic interview with someone on the BitWig team. A very good read.

http://thefrontliner.com/interviews/sfo ... ilms-43051

I think you need some perspective. Just because BitWig happens to have two small features that Live doesn't (right now) doesn't mean it is a better piece of software overall. A DAW is a complete package. Every additional feature is usually a trade-off with ease of use. Live in particular is all about fast and efficient working. Just because you take the basic idea behind Live and tack a dozen additional features onto it that turns it into a bloated mess doesn't mean the end product is a better DAW.

Besides, BitWig isn't even released yet. For every OMGCOOLAWESOME new feature BitWig brings to the table compared with Live it may miss 3 Live already has. These will be missed and noticed by Live users especially. Alot.

I'm not talking about two features. This is a FULL out complete DAW that in it's 1.0 stage is already more advanced in many ways than those that have been around for 15 years +. Believe me I'm well aware of it's shortcomings, like Ableton it's not meant to be a tracking DAW so there will be a lot of frustrations when dealing with audio in the arrange view. Unlike Ableton it is in version 1.0, Live should have solved that problem in 8 at the latest.

I don't think you fully understand how loaded this program is in terms of tiny workflow enhancements. What I'm illustrating are just top layer. You should really do some research on this thing man and like I said, you'll be very pleasantly surprised when you use it.

How good is the audio engine? I haven't heard a decent demo of it's sound quality at all. What type of floating point engine does it use? Does it have sample accurate plug-in delay compensation? For all we know, this thing could sound like ass. It's exported audio could sound like ass.

hec wrote:I don't think you fully understand how loaded this program is in terms of tiny workflow enhancements. What I'm illustrating are just top layer. You should really do some research on this thing man and like I said, you'll be very pleasantly surprised when you use it.

I see a bunch of videos describing the same features over and over. All they talk about is workflow and being a modular system. Not much talk about sound quality at all.

Research it?!?!?? It's hard to find a decent spec sheet on it anywhere.

I agree with that. I hate to sound the the bitter naysayer but I've watch all those videos. No drool or an "ooooo aaaaaahhhh" in the bunch. The closest thing for me is the vst expression. That seems cool. But I'm not sure it's going to help to make better music. Might be some fun under the hood stuff for tweakers......I dunno. I just don't see it.

For $399 you only get 3 gigs of content in Bitwig Studio. Live Intro comes with 4 gigs!!!!! Smdh.

@ hec - it's easy to take the piss in this thread because you started it by stating that Bitwig IS better, go on to say you haven't used it, and swear because it boasts a few features that this guarantees its complete success and the demise of Live... on Ableton's forum no less... you don't want to discuss anything for real... unless everyone agrees with you, right? you opened with a complete lack of tact... all of this makes it much easier to believe you came here with the intention of rabble rousing... and based on the results of your poll, it seems as though your efforts fell short.

you'll simply have to forgive some of us if, after 4 years of Bitwig .gifs and .jpegs, we remain uninspired.

I have no doubt there will be improvements over Live. That's why those guys left Abes, isn't it? If there were not aspects of the software where they were streets ahead of Live, then the developers would truly gave been wasting their money.

The 3 million Euro question (or whatever) is whether those improvements will be enough to sustain BW. It is pretty clear that they will need to eat into Live's market to do this - which is why the OP's question is actually an interesting one. Bitwig's survival probably does depend on whether people will migrate.

My sense is that better features on their own are not enough. I am completely prepared to accept that, were I to own BW, I would love it and think it was better than Live. But I am unsure whether that would be enough to make the switch worth the hassle, because moving would essentially mean saying goodbye to years and years of investment of time. .

So, two thoughts

(1) For me the single most important factor is not only the attractiveness of BW, but the ability to move across platforms. Would it be possible to import Live projects into BW? (How would that even look?)

(2) The crucial moment will be, not when BW launches, but the release of Live 10. That's when hundreds of thousands of users will be comparing the Live upgrade price with the cost of a move to BW. And if Live 10 incorporates sample accurate wave forms, layered midi, proper pdc, per note automation, and one or two other things, for a modest price, then BW would probably be in trouble

The Great Bitwig Migraine has been going on for years.