jackmazzotti wrote:sorry i was insulting in my previous post but thats not the separation of church and state
You've been far from insulting, you've been quite reasonable and patient, no worries. As a standard around here, sometimes things get out of control, sometimes music's discussed, in the end Ableton is cool.
ethios - Well stated.
ethios4 wrote:The point is that trying to enforce a humanist/non-theistic political viewpoint, on the grounds that such a viewpoint is somehow neutral, is truly ridiculous....only you can't see it because you are in the middle of that viewpoint, so it seems like the only rational viewpoint.
Religion is part of the human experience. Been there done that with churches. I still respect them, they're neighborhood watchdogs and good communuty centers. No need to talk about negative press here. I absolutely do not want religions abolished, they fulfill a vital role in many peoples' lives. Many many people need Jesus to help them through the day, get over guilt, move on through tragedy, give them something to write music about.
I do take the all-inclusive stance when it comes to religions. There's a time and place for religion. Interesting point about me getting my religion out of your government.
The US is being overrun by Christian dogma. One of my favorites is the
Faith Based Parks Initiative. It promotes things like selling books in the gift shop saying that The Grand Canyon was created by Noah's Flood.
"We want to fund programs that save Americans one soul at a time."
President George W. Bush, January, 2004, in a speech in New Orleans.
Saving souls, using his post to promote Christianity, only through Christ may a soul be saved, one at a time with my tax dollars. I'm going to be sick to my stomach.
look around at our society from the perspective of a rational, intelligent Christian, and imagine what that's like.
Even from where I stand society is out of control, I don't base my values on the Bible but I do have values. I've read the Bible, I read the new testament a few times (much better stories). I totally understand it, I just don't want to live it, hear it be around it anymore or have it influence the direction of my country (the biggest on the planet <scary>). Basically yes, Christian salvation is living a good life in the name of jesus. That means nothing to me but I understand it.
To me, I hear a bunch of people yelling "It's all relative...all paths are equally good...except the Christian path!! It's evil!!!" That, to me, indicates that there might be something worth investigating about this path that is somehow different than all the rest.....
Stephen 'Brass Balls' Colbert wrote:And though I am a committed Christian, I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion, be you Hindu, Jewish or Muslim. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
Again, it's that other religions are overlooked. This goes with your straw man comment. That's the tough part about being a christian these days (I imagine), there are soooo many bad christian role models. It's a shame that W is lambasting your religion, taking it too far, being a hypocrital liar. It really is the straw men we're talking about, the ones in government who can't even get their religion right.
If you had to vote for an openly christian president would it really be a soft skulled oil well sucking Texan with a history of cocaine and alcohol abuse and an AWOL military record during war time? The only thing they can't get on him is anything sexual, LMFAO!! I'm
glad Clinton was getting blow jobs in the oval office, finally the US was getting a good reputation!
EDIT: I forgot what I was originally going to write, ethios distracted me. Re: Seperation of church and state. This country was founded by a group of people tired of religious persecution in England. The Revolutionary war was a rebellion by the colonies because they didn't like how their tax money was being spent. In most (every other) western country it's unheard of for their leader to mention their religion in a speach.